I have to say, I’m overwhelmed at your generosity. Thank you so much for giving us all your thoughts and your words and your time. I was labouring away on a short story today and you’ve made me realise I’m working it too hard. I’m going to walk the dogs, chat to my mates and go back to it tomorrow with a smile on my face. Thanks
I love "Escape from Spiderhead" (the short story). It's classic Saunders all the way through. The trailer for the movie--the scenes feel much more intense and visceral when portrayed on the screen (for me, anyway). Also, MUCH scarier. Already the story has morphed in my mind's eye into the images I've just seen. Glad I've already read the story and was able to enjoy it cleanly, without seeing Miles Teller, etc., in my brain. I'd love to have been in the room when they decided not to use "Escape From" in the title. George, did you have any input on that decision? Anyway, it looks fantastic and I look forward to watching it--though I'll be hiding behind a pillow for parts of it, I think.
As far as the Q and A--it never would have occurred to me to think you work on more than one story at a time (in creation phase). So I'm glad someone asked that question! I can barely work on ONE story, much less more than one. I loved all of George's answer, but particularly this: "And then, on a higher level, we might even learn that even this feeling of stability and settledness is temporary - we can change our method at any time, no declarations needed." As with so much in Story Club, this sentence is not just about writing, but about life.
I'm already a big fan of the Q and A on Thursdays decision!
A practical, tactical question for you, George, and then a bit of a story to share.
Question: You say, "In a perfect world, I have three or four things started and sitting there on my desk.". Do you mean literally printed out on paper? Or do you mean on your "desktop", on your computer? From time to time I print mine out and there are huge advantages to that (for me) but it all has to come back to the soft copy eventually. Just wondering how you toggled back and forth between them, if you did.
Story: I cooked, very briefly, for John Updike at the end of his life. He was a neighbor of my primary employer, and had a big rambling house in the woods on the coast of Massachusetts. I was told that he always had several projects going at once, and he kept them in different rooms, with all the notes, reference books, post-its, and stacks of work-in-progress you might expect. He would just work in whichever room/project captured him at the moment, probably a lot like your process, George. I always thought that such a wonderful idea if you had the space--to really let the story/project inhabit the three-dimensional room, the better to enter its world.
P.S. To answer the question you are wondering right now I struggled mightily with myself but in the end I never brought him anything of mine to read/critique. I didn't know him well enough, and although part of my brain thought he might be grateful for a little diversion, the better part of me knew to let the man die in peace. (I still wonder though.)
Exactly what I needed to hear today (and all days), whilst sat under the watchful gaze of a small flock of unfinished story Post-its. Thank you, thank you.
"This brings to mind something else we might want to put into play in future discussions: the dangers of believing too simply in rigor and efficiency – two qualities we’ve been discussing and praising a lot here in Story Club."
They deserve praise, of course, and I've had my eye opened in Story Club to levels of detailed craft that I simply didn't know existed. And yet...
I'd like to know how much obsession and simply putting long hours in play a part in writing for you, George, and for the other contributors here. I can't help noticing that if I switch from writing 5 hours a day, which is what many pros recommend, to 10 or even 15 hours a day, the entire experience is transformed and the writing just flows in a very different way. The subconscious seems to take over *completely*, you're barely aware of what room you're in never mind your name, and stuff starts to emerge that your normal workaday mind would be incapable of (not saying that it's great, just that it's very different).
The downside, for me at least, is that in my time spent with other people, I can be little more than a wraith with a mad, thousand-yard stare, and eventually your friends and partner call you on it.
But then the Beatles at their peak were in the studio fourteen hours a day, every day, weren't they? How willing are we to piss off our friends, in order to get into that flow state?
Thanks, as always, for this post. And I'm so happy with the shift to office hours. Honestly one of the silver linings during this pandemic for me has been the access to great teachers (here and with two other interests I have). Wonderful to now have a Q&A on Story Club!
This post made me aware that when I write I have neglected to have fun--sometimes it has happened "accidentally," but in general I try too hard.
Reading "Escape from Spiderhead" (and, wow, what a great story), I was immediately struck by what I am not doing (and which Spiderhead obviously is): I'm not going far enough. I'm holding back, turning away from the discomfort of hanging out in the unknown, in outer space (or inner space).
The common element of these two is fear, and I really needed this reminder that the antidote to fear is joy, word play, goofing around . . . whooping it up on the joy-fear teeter-totter.
This was not my question, but it still seems to answer mine for me in many ways, so I really enjoyed reading this post today. Things I took from it: when to recognize that logic or reasoning is not working for you; pivoting to another work-in-progress that feels more fun; thinking of exploratory writing as "goofing around"; and perhaps, the best, when finally engaged with one story to its end, the idea that "I am about to learn so much." What a great attitude. We all worry, about our writing, yes. Sometimes that can really get in the way. Time, at least for me, to let some if not all of that worry go, I think.
I can't even imagine how exciting it would be to see a story I wrote translated into film with real actors and scenery and everything. Congratulations are in order I believe. I can't wait to watch the show!!
Re: "Spiderhead": I read the piece about it on Lithub, then read the story, and, yes, sallie and mary g., I too will be hiding my head through parts of the movie. I was a huge fan of "Breaking Bad" and watched every grueling, horrifying moment (even the "Box Cutter" episode!). I understand that "Better Call Saul" is terrific (husband loves it), but after a few episodes I quit watching--it made me too nervous. Now why the change in me? Age? But I'll gird my loins for "Spiderhead." Actually, I can't wait.
The director Trevor Nunn once said, Up to age 30 you believe you learn something new with each project—after 30 you realise you start each project with empty hands.
I read "Spiderhead" - it is the most disturbing story on earth. I hated it. I loved it. I think it's miraculous. The clip didn't do it for me. Gimme the words!
I caught that flash of your book in the trailer! :) Thank you for giving those of us who are behind the chance to be "in it". And I appreciate your saying we aren't really behind because I sure feel like those last few people in a marathon with the police car creeping up on my sore calves and the sun way too high in the sky.
I'm thinking about "The Falls," which is pretty much a perfect and seamless story. I was surprised and enlightened to learn that George wrote the first character, didn't know what to do with that piece, and put it in a drawer until the second character came along. I'm working on a long story, with inevitable fun/easy bits and dead/dead/dead bits. Story Club and its readings have inspired me on three occasions to start something new in response. Today's Q&A makes me feel I have permission to toggle back and forth among them. Thanks, George and everybody!
When I write, I'm pretty much dedicated to 'working at it' through my head. So I appreciated your saying: "...I will therefore be less afraid and cautious and can jettison the dreaded method-intellect-logic trio in favor of some good old goofing around."
About a year ago, I was toggling back and forth between four short stories, and it felt great. They were all "completed," as in, they had all reached the end of their first drafts. But you know that a first draft is far from what a story will become, what it's capable of becoming. A first draft is just the beginning. So, I would work on revising one story through a few drafts for a few weeks, and then put it down and pick up one of the other stories. And this all felt really good. It felt joyful! I wrote every morning for an hour and a half before the kids woke up. It was sacred time. At night I would will myself to fall asleep quickly, eager to wake up and climb back into my writing. But as the months passed, I got impatient. When would one of these stories be finished? Damn it! I wanted to publish something. I had artificial deadlines in my mind about when I would publish something. And I decided I was being lazy with these stories. What I needed to do was work on one until it was DONE, no exceptions.
So, I tried that. And I did make some really big progress with the story I chose to focus on. But then I ran into walls with the story. I struggled with it. And I read it over and over and over so many times that the words stopped making sense, and it wasn't long before the joy drained from my mornings, and I no longer went to bed impatient to fall asleep so I could wake up and write. I started hating the story I was working on, and I dreaded working on it. And I missed my other stories. I had so many fresh ideas and thoughts about them, but I told myself I wasn't allowed near them until I was "finished" with the one I was wrestling with. Eventually, defeated and dejected, I abandoned the story I was trying to finish. I decided it would never work. It had failed. I had failed.
Depressed about that failure, I stopped writing in the morning for a few weeks. And the world turned gray. And my obligations to my job and my house and my family felt heavier, and more irritating. But, worried that weeks of not writing would turn into years of not writing if I wasn’t careful, I gritted my teeth, and returned to the page. I picked up one of my other stories. The first few days were rough, but it wasn’t long before the joy of writing overtook me again. I worked on that story intently for a while.
One day, I casually picked up the failed story I had abandoned. And I read it for the first time in weeks. And its tangles unknotted, and its drains unclogged, and my eyes widened. I could see it, the way through! I saw the story, I saw what it needed, and I loved it once again. I finished it in March and sent it out into the world. I don’t know what will happen to it out there. I don’t know if it will find a home or not. But I don’t care. It’s finished, it’s beautiful, I love it.
I have five stories in the works now. Two of them really are almost there. They’ll get there, I’m not worried about it. George, I wish I had read this post of yours a year ago! It might have saved me from all that doubt and recrimination. But I am so, so happy to be reading your posts now. I can’t believe my luck, the luck of all of us here at story club, that we get to learn from you this way. Somehow, through some kind of loaves and fishes, biblical-level alchemy, you turned those six seats in your master class at Syracuse into infinite seats, enough for every writer who wants one. THANK YOU!
Q&A Thursdays - my new favorite day of the week. Unlike mary g., I have not read "Escape from Spiderhead" before seeing the trailer. So now I'm looking forward to reading the story before seeing the movie, so my mind can create the images before the filmmakers fill it with their vision. Looks like a lot of fun.
Recently I've immersed myself into the George Saunders' oeuvre...devouring the works. It's given me so many ideas of what to write and how to write. I juggle so many writing tasks at the same time, that I understand working on more than one work at a time. But only recently during my transition from teaching to writing have I had the opportunity to work on more than one creative project at a time, story or novella or novel or memoir.
A follow-up question, George, is have you always worked on more than one story at a time? Or has your process in working on more than one story at a time, in grabbing that fun brass ring, something that has developed over time?
Thanks again for your generosity of knowledge and time.
I have to say, I’m overwhelmed at your generosity. Thank you so much for giving us all your thoughts and your words and your time. I was labouring away on a short story today and you’ve made me realise I’m working it too hard. I’m going to walk the dogs, chat to my mates and go back to it tomorrow with a smile on my face. Thanks
I love "Escape from Spiderhead" (the short story). It's classic Saunders all the way through. The trailer for the movie--the scenes feel much more intense and visceral when portrayed on the screen (for me, anyway). Also, MUCH scarier. Already the story has morphed in my mind's eye into the images I've just seen. Glad I've already read the story and was able to enjoy it cleanly, without seeing Miles Teller, etc., in my brain. I'd love to have been in the room when they decided not to use "Escape From" in the title. George, did you have any input on that decision? Anyway, it looks fantastic and I look forward to watching it--though I'll be hiding behind a pillow for parts of it, I think.
As far as the Q and A--it never would have occurred to me to think you work on more than one story at a time (in creation phase). So I'm glad someone asked that question! I can barely work on ONE story, much less more than one. I loved all of George's answer, but particularly this: "And then, on a higher level, we might even learn that even this feeling of stability and settledness is temporary - we can change our method at any time, no declarations needed." As with so much in Story Club, this sentence is not just about writing, but about life.
I'm already a big fan of the Q and A on Thursdays decision!
A practical, tactical question for you, George, and then a bit of a story to share.
Question: You say, "In a perfect world, I have three or four things started and sitting there on my desk.". Do you mean literally printed out on paper? Or do you mean on your "desktop", on your computer? From time to time I print mine out and there are huge advantages to that (for me) but it all has to come back to the soft copy eventually. Just wondering how you toggled back and forth between them, if you did.
Story: I cooked, very briefly, for John Updike at the end of his life. He was a neighbor of my primary employer, and had a big rambling house in the woods on the coast of Massachusetts. I was told that he always had several projects going at once, and he kept them in different rooms, with all the notes, reference books, post-its, and stacks of work-in-progress you might expect. He would just work in whichever room/project captured him at the moment, probably a lot like your process, George. I always thought that such a wonderful idea if you had the space--to really let the story/project inhabit the three-dimensional room, the better to enter its world.
P.S. To answer the question you are wondering right now I struggled mightily with myself but in the end I never brought him anything of mine to read/critique. I didn't know him well enough, and although part of my brain thought he might be grateful for a little diversion, the better part of me knew to let the man die in peace. (I still wonder though.)
Exactly what I needed to hear today (and all days), whilst sat under the watchful gaze of a small flock of unfinished story Post-its. Thank you, thank you.
You should host a Zoom watch party when the movie comes out 😉
"This brings to mind something else we might want to put into play in future discussions: the dangers of believing too simply in rigor and efficiency – two qualities we’ve been discussing and praising a lot here in Story Club."
They deserve praise, of course, and I've had my eye opened in Story Club to levels of detailed craft that I simply didn't know existed. And yet...
I'd like to know how much obsession and simply putting long hours in play a part in writing for you, George, and for the other contributors here. I can't help noticing that if I switch from writing 5 hours a day, which is what many pros recommend, to 10 or even 15 hours a day, the entire experience is transformed and the writing just flows in a very different way. The subconscious seems to take over *completely*, you're barely aware of what room you're in never mind your name, and stuff starts to emerge that your normal workaday mind would be incapable of (not saying that it's great, just that it's very different).
The downside, for me at least, is that in my time spent with other people, I can be little more than a wraith with a mad, thousand-yard stare, and eventually your friends and partner call you on it.
But then the Beatles at their peak were in the studio fourteen hours a day, every day, weren't they? How willing are we to piss off our friends, in order to get into that flow state?
Thanks, as always, for this post. And I'm so happy with the shift to office hours. Honestly one of the silver linings during this pandemic for me has been the access to great teachers (here and with two other interests I have). Wonderful to now have a Q&A on Story Club!
This post made me aware that when I write I have neglected to have fun--sometimes it has happened "accidentally," but in general I try too hard.
Reading "Escape from Spiderhead" (and, wow, what a great story), I was immediately struck by what I am not doing (and which Spiderhead obviously is): I'm not going far enough. I'm holding back, turning away from the discomfort of hanging out in the unknown, in outer space (or inner space).
The common element of these two is fear, and I really needed this reminder that the antidote to fear is joy, word play, goofing around . . . whooping it up on the joy-fear teeter-totter.
This was not my question, but it still seems to answer mine for me in many ways, so I really enjoyed reading this post today. Things I took from it: when to recognize that logic or reasoning is not working for you; pivoting to another work-in-progress that feels more fun; thinking of exploratory writing as "goofing around"; and perhaps, the best, when finally engaged with one story to its end, the idea that "I am about to learn so much." What a great attitude. We all worry, about our writing, yes. Sometimes that can really get in the way. Time, at least for me, to let some if not all of that worry go, I think.
I can't even imagine how exciting it would be to see a story I wrote translated into film with real actors and scenery and everything. Congratulations are in order I believe. I can't wait to watch the show!!
Re: "Spiderhead": I read the piece about it on Lithub, then read the story, and, yes, sallie and mary g., I too will be hiding my head through parts of the movie. I was a huge fan of "Breaking Bad" and watched every grueling, horrifying moment (even the "Box Cutter" episode!). I understand that "Better Call Saul" is terrific (husband loves it), but after a few episodes I quit watching--it made me too nervous. Now why the change in me? Age? But I'll gird my loins for "Spiderhead." Actually, I can't wait.
The director Trevor Nunn once said, Up to age 30 you believe you learn something new with each project—after 30 you realise you start each project with empty hands.
I read "Spiderhead" - it is the most disturbing story on earth. I hated it. I loved it. I think it's miraculous. The clip didn't do it for me. Gimme the words!
I caught that flash of your book in the trailer! :) Thank you for giving those of us who are behind the chance to be "in it". And I appreciate your saying we aren't really behind because I sure feel like those last few people in a marathon with the police car creeping up on my sore calves and the sun way too high in the sky.
I'm thinking about "The Falls," which is pretty much a perfect and seamless story. I was surprised and enlightened to learn that George wrote the first character, didn't know what to do with that piece, and put it in a drawer until the second character came along. I'm working on a long story, with inevitable fun/easy bits and dead/dead/dead bits. Story Club and its readings have inspired me on three occasions to start something new in response. Today's Q&A makes me feel I have permission to toggle back and forth among them. Thanks, George and everybody!
When I write, I'm pretty much dedicated to 'working at it' through my head. So I appreciated your saying: "...I will therefore be less afraid and cautious and can jettison the dreaded method-intellect-logic trio in favor of some good old goofing around."
A Year in the Life of a New Writer
About a year ago, I was toggling back and forth between four short stories, and it felt great. They were all "completed," as in, they had all reached the end of their first drafts. But you know that a first draft is far from what a story will become, what it's capable of becoming. A first draft is just the beginning. So, I would work on revising one story through a few drafts for a few weeks, and then put it down and pick up one of the other stories. And this all felt really good. It felt joyful! I wrote every morning for an hour and a half before the kids woke up. It was sacred time. At night I would will myself to fall asleep quickly, eager to wake up and climb back into my writing. But as the months passed, I got impatient. When would one of these stories be finished? Damn it! I wanted to publish something. I had artificial deadlines in my mind about when I would publish something. And I decided I was being lazy with these stories. What I needed to do was work on one until it was DONE, no exceptions.
So, I tried that. And I did make some really big progress with the story I chose to focus on. But then I ran into walls with the story. I struggled with it. And I read it over and over and over so many times that the words stopped making sense, and it wasn't long before the joy drained from my mornings, and I no longer went to bed impatient to fall asleep so I could wake up and write. I started hating the story I was working on, and I dreaded working on it. And I missed my other stories. I had so many fresh ideas and thoughts about them, but I told myself I wasn't allowed near them until I was "finished" with the one I was wrestling with. Eventually, defeated and dejected, I abandoned the story I was trying to finish. I decided it would never work. It had failed. I had failed.
Depressed about that failure, I stopped writing in the morning for a few weeks. And the world turned gray. And my obligations to my job and my house and my family felt heavier, and more irritating. But, worried that weeks of not writing would turn into years of not writing if I wasn’t careful, I gritted my teeth, and returned to the page. I picked up one of my other stories. The first few days were rough, but it wasn’t long before the joy of writing overtook me again. I worked on that story intently for a while.
One day, I casually picked up the failed story I had abandoned. And I read it for the first time in weeks. And its tangles unknotted, and its drains unclogged, and my eyes widened. I could see it, the way through! I saw the story, I saw what it needed, and I loved it once again. I finished it in March and sent it out into the world. I don’t know what will happen to it out there. I don’t know if it will find a home or not. But I don’t care. It’s finished, it’s beautiful, I love it.
I have five stories in the works now. Two of them really are almost there. They’ll get there, I’m not worried about it. George, I wish I had read this post of yours a year ago! It might have saved me from all that doubt and recrimination. But I am so, so happy to be reading your posts now. I can’t believe my luck, the luck of all of us here at story club, that we get to learn from you this way. Somehow, through some kind of loaves and fishes, biblical-level alchemy, you turned those six seats in your master class at Syracuse into infinite seats, enough for every writer who wants one. THANK YOU!
Q&A Thursdays - my new favorite day of the week. Unlike mary g., I have not read "Escape from Spiderhead" before seeing the trailer. So now I'm looking forward to reading the story before seeing the movie, so my mind can create the images before the filmmakers fill it with their vision. Looks like a lot of fun.
Recently I've immersed myself into the George Saunders' oeuvre...devouring the works. It's given me so many ideas of what to write and how to write. I juggle so many writing tasks at the same time, that I understand working on more than one work at a time. But only recently during my transition from teaching to writing have I had the opportunity to work on more than one creative project at a time, story or novella or novel or memoir.
A follow-up question, George, is have you always worked on more than one story at a time? Or has your process in working on more than one story at a time, in grabbing that fun brass ring, something that has developed over time?
Thanks again for your generosity of knowledge and time.