Great topic raised here - it gets at the heart of why late-stage writing is more like wrighting than muse-chasing.
It's impossible to be objective about self, but asking questions about what the piece was, what it is, and what you want it to be might give some clarity. I often find that some of the lines I seem to pull a lot of joy from o…
Great topic raised here - it gets at the heart of why late-stage writing is more like wrighting than muse-chasing.
It's impossible to be objective about self, but asking questions about what the piece was, what it is, and what you want it to be might give some clarity. I often find that some of the lines I seem to pull a lot of joy from on first draft are the ones I need to say goodbye to earliest in revision; the story has moved passed them, or around them. So make a hard choice, and see what happens.
"Adopt the pace of nature; her secret is patience." -Emerson
I like your insight about being attached to a certain line early in the writing process, and realizing later that it is precisely those lines which need to be cut.
There's a (likely apocryphal) story about Martin Scorsese in which, when he's filming, he often has one scene that he thinks is absolutely solid. The whole film really hangs on that one scene. And then when he's in the editing room, and he's trying to fine-tune the film, it's all struggling to come together. Something about it just seems off. And then, for whatever reason, the whole film seems to come together when he decides to cut that scene.
A great story 👏 So hard to feel like you're discarding babies with the bathwater, but I've always been buoyed by the insight (can't recall whose) that the first idea is seldom the best.
I agree that some questions might help, questions that we might much more easily apply to others' writing than to our own. What about rules of thumb like: Is there enough tension/escalation (not, "this is boring")? I can see that some readers would find no tension, a ho-hum story, while others would say "this is wild!" If we put on our editor's hat would that give us a little distance? I think such specific questions would be more useful than "Ick I don't like it." --along with patience and knowing what kind of reader you are. I agree that in the long run this art thing makes everything more difficult, better to write manuals for recharging batteries, but I do think the subconscious needs some help putting things together.
And that voice that says "and the story is bad" should be invited to sit quietly out back until it has found a more helpful way to support the writer's work.
Haha, yes, and may it stay there! I like the idea of specific questions written down to serve as reminders/self check-ins when things don't seem to be gelling: could be a good way to ground and reorient when the prose takes off in unwieldly or unwelcome directions.
With the proviso that I write plays rather than novels or short stories - I often find cutting pretty much the whole of the first ten pages of the first draft helps, as does cutting many 'gags'. Though I may have enjoyed writing the latter, too often they reflect my own sense of humour, rather than the distinct senses of humour of the individual characters.
Though also worth noting that, perhaps especially when it comes to humour, really great writing can mean the presence of the author's voice throughout can really work. (As mentioned on an earlier thread, people like Amy Sherman-Palladino & Daniel Palladino et al - who wrote Mrs Maisel - and Oscar Wilde write with such skill and verve, the presence of the voice of the writer(s) is part of the joy of the piece).
You're right, I was trying to use the phrase 'With the proviso that I write plays rather than novels or short stories' to mean 'my thoughts / opinions might not apply directly to the sort of writing most of you are involved in', which it doesn't really stretch to.
This is an observation about authorial editing that may be useful. The idea that there is some small but crucial detail that the work seems to hang from or depend on, but the effort to force the connections to make themselves apparent forces the autho r to choose another pathway through the available material. This reminds me of George’s previous essay about the work resisting his existing concept of what it is supposed to be and inviting him to change direction.
Great topic raised here - it gets at the heart of why late-stage writing is more like wrighting than muse-chasing.
It's impossible to be objective about self, but asking questions about what the piece was, what it is, and what you want it to be might give some clarity. I often find that some of the lines I seem to pull a lot of joy from on first draft are the ones I need to say goodbye to earliest in revision; the story has moved passed them, or around them. So make a hard choice, and see what happens.
"Adopt the pace of nature; her secret is patience." -Emerson
I like your insight about being attached to a certain line early in the writing process, and realizing later that it is precisely those lines which need to be cut.
There's a (likely apocryphal) story about Martin Scorsese in which, when he's filming, he often has one scene that he thinks is absolutely solid. The whole film really hangs on that one scene. And then when he's in the editing room, and he's trying to fine-tune the film, it's all struggling to come together. Something about it just seems off. And then, for whatever reason, the whole film seems to come together when he decides to cut that scene.
True or not, I appreciate the insight.
A great story 👏 So hard to feel like you're discarding babies with the bathwater, but I've always been buoyed by the insight (can't recall whose) that the first idea is seldom the best.
Except Martin Scorsese never edited a film to save his life, at least not enough.
Scorsese has the best editor in the business, Thelma Schoonmaker!
The most challenged too! - I was being slightly facetious of course … or was I? 😏
I agree that some questions might help, questions that we might much more easily apply to others' writing than to our own. What about rules of thumb like: Is there enough tension/escalation (not, "this is boring")? I can see that some readers would find no tension, a ho-hum story, while others would say "this is wild!" If we put on our editor's hat would that give us a little distance? I think such specific questions would be more useful than "Ick I don't like it." --along with patience and knowing what kind of reader you are. I agree that in the long run this art thing makes everything more difficult, better to write manuals for recharging batteries, but I do think the subconscious needs some help putting things together.
And that voice that says "and the story is bad" should be invited to sit quietly out back until it has found a more helpful way to support the writer's work.
Haha, yes, and may it stay there! I like the idea of specific questions written down to serve as reminders/self check-ins when things don't seem to be gelling: could be a good way to ground and reorient when the prose takes off in unwieldly or unwelcome directions.
great Emerson quote! Thanks!
The man can turn a phrase! 😁 Hard advice to follow in a world making constant demands on our attention, but I try and keep it top of mind.
Only doctors have patients.
With the proviso that I write plays rather than novels or short stories - I often find cutting pretty much the whole of the first ten pages of the first draft helps, as does cutting many 'gags'. Though I may have enjoyed writing the latter, too often they reflect my own sense of humour, rather than the distinct senses of humour of the individual characters.
Though also worth noting that, perhaps especially when it comes to humour, really great writing can mean the presence of the author's voice throughout can really work. (As mentioned on an earlier thread, people like Amy Sherman-Palladino & Daniel Palladino et al - who wrote Mrs Maisel - and Oscar Wilde write with such skill and verve, the presence of the voice of the writer(s) is part of the joy of the piece).
What condition to an agreement does your proviso refer to?
You're right, I was trying to use the phrase 'With the proviso that I write plays rather than novels or short stories' to mean 'my thoughts / opinions might not apply directly to the sort of writing most of you are involved in', which it doesn't really stretch to.
and Gilmore Girls, lest we forget Stars Hollow
Love advice Cameron. Emerson had it right when he wrote about nature and Patience. Those trees and flowers always show up.
They give a lot of truth, and respite from worry 🌻🌳
This is an observation about authorial editing that may be useful. The idea that there is some small but crucial detail that the work seems to hang from or depend on, but the effort to force the connections to make themselves apparent forces the autho r to choose another pathway through the available material. This reminds me of George’s previous essay about the work resisting his existing concept of what it is supposed to be and inviting him to change direction.