If it took a man a week to walk a fortnight how long would it take a bare arsed savage elephant to sandpaper a doe deer, one of those dearly beloved fauna, into a winning whippet?
Hello Dear George Saunders. I Hope you re doing well. I think this time you can read my comment since it is Thursday. I am proud to announce you that I have translated your precious Lincoln in the Bardo into Farsi language and it is well received in Iran by the readers. I would be so happy if I could send you a copy of it.
Dear Michael, I have to apologize you and other friends for not having a strong English. Because I am not a native speaker like you and I am doing my best just to convey the meaning
Thank you so much for all your kindness dear Michael. It would be a great honor for me if you and other friends try to learn Farsi language some day. We have some great classical and modern writers and especially poets in our culture among them I can name Hakim Omar Khayyam. A big philosopher, astronomer, mathematician, historian and poet of the 11th and 12th century whose philosophical quatrains are beautifully translated into English by your Edward Fitzgerald. The most important theme in his poems is Carpie diem or Sieze the Day. This theme can also be found in the poems of the seventeenth English Metaphysical Poets such as George Herbert and Andrew Marvell. By the way, learning Greek would be a wonderful experience and I congratulate you for your endeavor. Positively Reading Greek Mythology in It's original language will give you so much joy and pleasure and you have motivated me to pay attention to this language too
Farsi looks so beautiful on the page - I worked for a short while some years ago with an elderly exiled poet who wrote in Farsi and did not speak much English. How I wish I had been able to read the script. It would be really lovely to see an example of your Saunders translation.
I am so sorry, Yashin, but I can't. This was almost twenty years ago - I was then helping at a asylum seekers' centre here in the UK, helping translate where I could, into English. He was elderly then, had had to leave Iran years before after a period in Evin Prison... All he would tell us was his initials. K. R.
He wrote his story for a book I was helping to compile and edit, 'Refuge - Stories of Survival and Escape' (QueenSpark Books, Brighton, UK., published 2004). He wrote in Farsi, and it was translated for the book by Iranian colleagues. He asked for his handwritten pages back afterwards, saying his handwriting had got him into trouble before...)
What follows is just two paragraphs.
"The Mullah accompanied me when I left prison. He told me that from now on, I should go by the name of Haj Agha. He said he had saved my life because he thought I was a good man. He said that, if I could leave Iran, I should go, now. If I was arrested a second time, he warned, I would be killed for certain.
From Turkey I went on to travel throughout the world. I visited much of Eastern Europe and Russia, but they didn't hold my interest. I had come from hell and was trying to find Paradise. I travelled to Latin America, still searching, then on to Syria, Jordan, Germany, France, Belgium, Sweden and Norway, The more I travelled, the more I came to realise there are no paradises."
I apologise if this is too much information. However, it gives me pleasure to revisit K R's words after some years. If you would like me to send you scans of his whole story, please contact me via my website ; vanessagebbie.com
Thank you so much dear Vanessa for all your information. This information is really precious. I guess that Persian exiled poet had been a Political Prisoner. Unfortunately it is more than fourty two years that the Iranian people and intellectuals are living under a dictator brutal regime of the Mullahs. The Evin Prison is one of the most horrifying prisons in the world full of tortures for the Prisoners especially those who are Political. After the golden time of Pahlavi Monarchy in Iran the foolish revolution of 1979 brought so much misery, poverty, sensorshipe, execution and desolation for the people of this country. It is weird that the left wing intellectuals were the true leaders of this stupid revolution but they were also the first victims of this event. Perhaps that Persian Exiled poet has had the same destiny
That's very kind of you dear friend. I really appreciate your compliments. The translating of Lincoln in the Bardo into Farsi language almost lasted more than two years for me and most of the readers and critics believe that it is the most faithful and the best among the other translations
Thank you so much dear friend. Those who are the literature worms know that George Saunders is undoubtedly the master of writing short stories. So when he annouced that Lincoln in the Bardo is his first novel all his readers expected to face a big literary work with full of wonders. Nafir Press in Iran provided the book and it's manager chose me as the translator of this strange unique novel. That was really a hard job because of the difficulty of the writer's prose for me but finally I could present a faithful translation of the novel into Farsi after more than two years
I automatically rated them in order of which stories interested me enough to keep me reading.
The number one spot went to an opening that had a seed of a mystery in it. Someone knocked on the main character's door. So in my head, I went: "Who's that knocking on your door late at night? Who is this that you're not expecting?" Caught me! I'm interested!
Number Two went to a story that didn't have such an obvious catch. It didn't open with one of those sentences that grabs you. But it was enough to intrigue me with a voice, a personality. I could see that, most likely, the story was going to head someplace very soon. I'd probably keep reading this one. But it wasn't as well-done as story Number One.
Number Three just bored me. It was a story that i would call unconventional in form. But it was too "done." Too much thought went into being unconventional. And there was nothing there to hold onto. Still, it got more points than the story that came in last place, because at least the author was attempting to be interesting.
The bottom place (Number Four) went to a story that was also unconventional in form. But this one was just impossible to grasp. I'd have to read that paragraph over a few times to understand it. And that was asking too much of me.
So, what was obvious to me from this exercise is that I like a good opening, one that lets me know i'm in good hands. One that says: You are about to be taken off into a world and it's going to PAY OFF in the end. There is a confidence in the writing. There is a respect for me as the reader. There is none of this fucking around business of trying too hard. (Now i like an unconventional story as much as anyone--but not these particular ones. I had no confidence in them.)
I know what you mean about something being too "done." I like stories to feel effortless. When I can feel the exertion of the writer in the words, it takes me out of it; I am paying attention to the process, not the story.
Omg, Mary! I can’t believe someone on here is challenging you to a duel of words. It would be cracking me up if it wasn’t so deranged.
I wish there was a way to send private messages, but since there’s not I just wanted to drop you a line to say I think you are thoughtful, fun, wonderful and I’ve got your back, girl.
I just had a lengthy "representation matters" conversation with an old classmate (on social media) and felt the same temptation to make an attempt, but lord, I'm tired. I'm guessing you were brave enough to go there. Thank you, Mary!
Thank you, Manami. The current divisive climate is so depressing. Angry people yelling at one another gets everyone exactly nowhere. In these types of conversations, someone always feels attacked. I believe in keeping lines of communication open, but it seems I may not have found the right approach. Well. I tried! Next time, i probably will go with my initial reaction, which was to just ignore. (But ignoring gets us nowhere, too. I guess a person just can't win.) I appreciate the support very, very much.
I'm all for open, constructive communication! But boy, is it hard to do that over politics (and even harder over the internet). I had a sneaking suspicion the purpose of the comment was just to vent, since it was so unrelated to our exercise, and a bad feeling about where engaging with it might lead.
Back when George mentioned sharing some writing on culture and politics here in Story Club, my first thought was "oh please don't." Not because I don't want to read what he might have to say on those topics—I do!—but I hate to imagine what will happen to our generally lovely comments section.
Maybe a piece like that could be just for paid subscribers? I feel like the majority of Story Club members are kind and thoughtful people, and even if they disagree with a post could discuss it somewhat reasonably.
Every once in a while we seem to get a loose cannon in here, but I love to see how other commenters swoop in to diffuse the situation. (Although I am pretty sure I just did the opposite with my last comment! 😬)
I didn’t see your initial conversation with him, just his angry, ranting response. I started and erased quite a few responses but then decided against it. He’s obviously spent a lot of time dwelling on his (real or imagined) grievances, and I don’t think anything we say is going to break through that.
yes, i actually began and erased several as well. I kept hoping someone else would respond.... I tried to word it in such a way that he wouldn't feel attacked, but obviously i completely failed. Someone else posted to him now, and I think they did a good job--but he wasn't happy with that post, either. From his response, it looks possible that he's done with the Club. Hard to tell, though. Oy! Thanks for having my back. It is MUCH appreciated.
Just arrived, don't know what I missed, but I can't believe George would ever kick you off this substack. I know I'd miss you, your honesty, and deep-reaching insights!
"I automatically rated them in order of which stories interested me enough to keep me reading."
That is exactly what I noted about myself...
On what criteria? What I was most interested in… what presented itself to me as going somewhere that would feel, well, just that would feel… what sounded like a heartfelt voice, coming from somewhere richly colourful, dark blue and golden too… what went in clean (not necessarily easy, I mean, but without jarring me out of the reading… though I don’t mind a narrative presence, I do seem to mind an authorial presence)
What put me off? Actually, modern things seemed to put me off a bit, or, rather, whimsical modern stuff.
I found this exercise not nearly as easy as it sounds, for some reason! I tried it with a random sampling from a stack of a well-known and highly regarded lit mag, the issues between 1-2 yrs old.
Full disclosure: no GS stories were harmed in the attempting of this exercise.
I only liked the opening of one story, and I can't even tell why, except that it was dialogue, in the form of a question, extremely short (one sentence), and a little bit funny, seemingly.
The other 8 (I actually did the exercise twice with two different random samplings, so in fact, more like 16 stories) didn't do much for me. I'm not sure I would have continued reading any of them unless forced somehow.
I'm just being honest here.
I know it sounds bad.
If I say I prefer good writing over not good, will that do it?
But I can't say that any of what I didn't particularly care about was not good writing.
Just kinda boring. To me.
The sense of bodily risk I am experiencing right now must be nothing but a ghostly shiver of lives I could have lived but didn't.
In any case, I was getting a little bit worried about how and why I could not care for so many story openings, and was relieved when I actually found one I liked.
Maybe it's something about a writer's relationship to their own writing that comes through somehow to the reader? Separate from content or subject matter? I'd say ease or command, if that made any sense. But the more I think about this the more mysterious the whole thing seems to be.
Hey Amanda, not sure if your reactions here reflect your broader literary tastes, but FWIW I dislike a lot of what I read, including things the rest of the universe regards as brilliant, profound, and life-changing. I tell myself I've developed this hyper-discriminating filter so that I'm better able to appreciate the stuff I do like, and to keep edging closer to the writer I want to be.
Either that or my negativity dial is cranked to 11. Or possibly both?
Anyway, as the saying goes, there's no accounting for radical preference.
It’s not practically possible to care for every story opening. At one time, I would feel similarly sad or guilty about passing over stories that other writers and editors have laboured over. I suspect it’s a misplaced form of empathy. However, with so many demands on our attention these days, I think we honour ourselves and the very real limits on our time when we attend to what we care about, without apology. You don’t need to summon negative energy to pass over 15 out of 16 stories. ‘Not for me’ works!
"In any case, I was getting a little bit worried about how and why I could not care for so many story openings, and was relieved when I actually found one I liked."
That's exactly how I felt doing this exercise. I try to read a lot of lit mags, and I often ask myself what the point is, because it is just so rare to find stories, poems, etc that I enjoy, or that a magazine has at least some work I enjoy with every issue. Maybe I'm reading the wrong magazines? I'm sure my stories are that way to other people just as often.
I had the opposite problem. I chose a literary journal with which I was not familiar (I picked it because of the cover aesthetics) and the four I chose were all (annoyingly) up my alley. I wanted to have a more varied response.
Good questions. I hadn't thought in terms of no flow but that might be part of it? On the other hand, I'm not sure I can point to any one objectionable thing about any of the openings I read that didn't speak to me. Probably, if I went back to those same stories and gave them another, more careful read, I would find plenty to like. Maybe, the essence of the exercise is that doing it very quickly, it can tell you something that you otherwise might not know about your preferences if you had dedicated yourself to reading a story all the way through and didn't put so much emphasis on the opening?
You are buttering me up....In Bermuda frozen butter out of the fridge is rock hard..much easier to spread after a little time standing on the counter in the warm air^^
My number one paragraph had a vehicle that was accelerating and braking through traffic and the descriptions made me feel like I was in the vehicle myself. I could feel the stop-start in my own guts and that woke me up and sold me. I felt the most alive and trusting in this paragraph. Felt like something happening rather than a piece of writing.
Second place went to a first-person paragraph written out in a super casual texting style with wild punctuation and all-caps all over the place, tons of swearing, with an edgy, jocular vibe. Loose cannon feelings. The text was kind of hard to read but I dug that the narrative voice was so unafraid and I expected to hear interesting things going forward.
Weirdly enough, my third and fourth choice paragraphs were both descriptions of parties.
The third-place party paragraph painted a nice picture—really nice, I almost put the paragraph at number one because the details were so pleasing, like a great photographic magazine spread —but I couldn’t shake a who-cares feeling. Everything was pretty but nothing felt dangerous.
The party paragraph in fourth place was loooooooong, and it felt like we were moving through a fog of non-lively musing and generalities. I kept moving my eyes forward hoping for something to jump up. Took forever to arrive at one specific party with an interesting thing happening.
I’ve learned that I like to feel like I’m getting bounced around by some force from somewhere, shaken awake.
As someone who is drawn to the lyrical, both as a reader and a writer, I was struck by your line: Everything was pretty but nothing felt dangerous. I must remember that in my own writing!
Hi Tina, I love your descriptions of being bounced around and shaken awake! My favorite was cogent, simple and immediate, with high stakes that aroused my curiosity. I picked my second also based on the narrator's voice which emerges quickly in scene. And the third got ranked that way because of the narrator being a little vague and unreliable and long and too descriptive, and the fourth because it was vague writing with philosophical overtones that made me feel like I needed to read it a few times in order to get it. I love this exercise for the permission it gives me to pick my favorites based on my own radical preferences and now I want to go make a list of all those writers I love! Humor is key for me. I like a thinker also, but someone who isn't pretentious. That's a true art, i.e. Elif Batuman.
Based purely on this excercise (but not necessarily on what I believe about myself), I seem to be growing tired of those irony-laden, very Western, very modern, very urbane "observational" openings, and prefer things that immediately create tension and are slightly dark, strange or off-kilter.
I realized that the stories I bristled against the most were the ones where the writing felt in any way confusing—where too many names, for example, were dropped in quick succession, or where specific details were offered in what, to my ear, came off in a clunky way. I've realized that the openings I respond best to are those that are clear, deeply evocative, and pique my curiosity (either by establishing some interesting tension or presenting a character or a scenario that seems off-kilter, strange or otherwise endearing).
I will note, a lot of the stories I love most are ones that drop me into a scenario that will take more than one paragraph to situate myself in, which I see as being distinct from having a sense of "confusion". In general, I think patience is a key thing for a reader to bring to any story. This exercise is making me consider the difference between stories that seem quietly assure me right from the start: "Your patience will be rewarded" and those that don't. I can feel largely unmoored for a couple of paragraphs and still have the sense that I'm in capable hands.
My First Post - I just liked the exercise so much I upped my subscription so I could join you! My top two had similar effects: both delivered something emotionally shocking or surprising, and I wanted *explanations* of what? wait! How did that happen? What are they going to do about it? Third place featured a Cadillac, a mystery, and finicky explanations about weather ("the coldest September in southern Wisconsin" isn't exactly the opening of Bleak House). Fourth - the nervous ramblings of a person who couldn't stop whining, and I didn't want to hear any more. This is interesting to me, as someone who generally resists "drop them into the action" openings - but it wasn't action so much as a situation, and I wanted to know WHY, not just "what happens next." The setting and voice in Three and Four pushed me away; One and Two pulled me toward them.
The story openings I was most attracted to were concerned with a singular character and told in a personal way. Less attractive were those whose voice tended toward the analytical, or far worse, cynical.
Sooo, after getting the instructions wrong again (good grief, how hard can it be?), one paragraph was try-hard (8 lines waxing lyrical) one not-try-hard-enough (8 lines of familiar tropes), and a third plain interminable (25 lines). But the fourth was a 6-line nugget of stillness, unease and suspense. And I can now pinpoint why it worked: escalation. Thanks, George!
I knew this about myself already, and about my reading habits, but the exercise was useful in reminding me that I prefer writing that feels authentic, and that is written in a voice I find believable. I look for that before I look for anything. My paragraphs were ranked according to that principle. Also, the writing in the paragraphs I preferred seemed to match the subject matter in a way, to respect it. First person narratives in particular have to have a voice I feel I can trust. Third person narratives that are related by an omniscient narrator had better be believable, too. In other words, the voice has to have some authority, or the language has to convey a special or intimate knowledge of what is being told. Another thing I noticed in doing this exercise is the importance to me of feeling compelled to continue to read, after the first paragraph has been consumed. The lowest ranked paragraph left me cold; I couldn't care less about what was next. Great assignment!
And by the way, in regard to the "favorite apple" thread, I want to cast my vote for a variety called "Ida Red". I buy them at a farmer's market in Lower Manhattan. They come from the Hudson Valley.
There are many thousands of apple varieties, and probably more than that many names for them. (There may be as many as 75,000 varieties worldwide, according to one source.) I looked up "Ida Red" and found a site called "Out on a Limb Apples".
"Idared is a fairly recent cross between two classic American heirloom varieties, Jonathan and Wagener. It was bred at the Idaho Experiment Station in 1942. It’s hardy enough to be grown in small quantities in many commercial Maine orchards. The medium-large, round, slightly-ribbed fruit is almost entirely blushed with a cheerful ‘1940′s red.’ The ground color is reminiscent of Jonathan and Prima. Sometimes there’s a russet patch around the stem."
Now I'm curious about the phrase "cheerful '1940's red'".
I found apples at the farmer’s market in NYC that I’d never heard of before, one was so good... but I didn’t write down the name and poof, it never came to me again. I’ll be in Hudson in a few months so I’ll look for Ida Reds.
I was surprised by how random and silly my choices seemed. 1. had horses 2. a curious little boy and love between mother and son 3. Liked the opening quotes and how they juxtaposed and were funny. 4. too scientific, futuristic and confusing. Still I went on to read them all and in the end enjoy them:)))
The first paragraph of the first story just hooked me. The character is 72, feeling his age, and just had a stroke. He's saying his good-byes at work. That doesn't sound like something that would make you want to keep reading, but it does. (I also wonder why have I never read this story, sitting on my bookshelf, for God knows how long?) The second story also hooked me, but to a lesser extent. The third story confused me. I had to go back to see who was who. I was confused. The paragraph was long and then he or she went off on a meandering tangent and I was more annoyed than hooked.
My mentor and other readers accuse me of meandering all the time. They always tell me to cut, cut, cut. But in the back of my mind, I resist. I think all of my meanderings are gold. No, they're not. They're boring and they confuse people and it makes them want to stop reading. This exercise drove that fact home very well.
George, thanks for the interesting exercise on radical preference! I bought a literary journal that didn’t end up working for this, but fun to visit a small bookstore. At home, I had several magazines with short fiction pieces that I used instead. I won’t name the magazine. I never looked at the author’s names. After choosing four random numbers between 1 and 9, pulled 9 fiction pieces, numbered the pieces without looking at them at all, and finally, pulled out the ones that fit my random numbers. I read the first paragraph from each one.
Also…just so the club knows, Cosmic Crisp apples and Honey Crisp apples are the best, and that’s just the way it is.
On the break, I had a wonderful snack, some chit chat, (most in the club here with Mary G and Rosanne) a nap, plus some puttering.
The randomly chosen four short fiction first paragraphs were all good, so no hurt feelings even if I did name names.
My numbers were 3, 4, 6, 8.
I chose story #4 as best first paragraph, and then wondered… did I chose it because it was the longest paragraph ever, with lists of the cool things the main guy remembered throughout his life? Was the length a factor…because I was more attached and deeply involved? I want to find out what happens to this guy in the story. Two other pieces in my pile had much shorter paragraphs, and so I didn’t get as much. The last one had a medium size paragraph, but it just didn’t grab me.
In my favorite #4, the writer’s long paragraph featured an older man wondering about how many things he’d forgotten in all his minutes on earth, and this seemed to stop him dead in his tracks. Subject matter drew me in. The older man in this story begins looking back on moments in his life that he does remember. The writing is clear, crisp, this man’s memories–– just the right amount of this or that to set the scene. Just the right amount of information.
I chose #8 as the next “best” paragraph. Strong descriptions of a hat, but not too much. The paragraph ended with an action and I wanted to know what happens in the next paragraph.
Next, #6. The first paragraph again was short, but I wasn’t as interested as the first two. It was fiction, the paragraph ended with a bit of humor, it seemed to be political, and perhaps started out a little less of something for me. I would’ve kept reading it if it wasn’t a part of this lesson, so nothing wrong, it was just that the other two were more compelling.
Last was #3. Not enough in the first paragraph of #3 to get me wondering, what is this short fiction piece about? The narrator is a sporty type, did that make me lose interest? Was it because he was describing his dreams? I lose interest if there’s too much description. That's something I've noticed just in the past few years. Like that one student George mentioned, I also don’t appreciate reading lush descriptions of nature or scenery (a little is fine) and I wonder if that’s because I grew up in a city, right downtown, a real cement ball, with gasoline rainbows and smoggy, brown sunsets. Who knows.
Yes agree, Cosmic Crisp are the best! Long ago I loved me some Fujis, but I feel like they're just watery/sweet nowadays. And are Cameos still around? I don't get enough apple varieties where I live, and am a little too excited for a visit back to WA this fall . . .
You can get Cameos at PCC, the food cooperative. Wow Hawaii! It’s freezing here right now. The weather has been bizarre, snow, hail storms-- I want to be where you are.
I just realized you are a PNW Story Clubber, too, Stacya! I’m in Portland, and yes - the weather has been bonkers! My kids had a snow day from school on Monday. I mean... what??!
I love Portland! Sara, I thought you were from WA too, for some reason. And Stacya, my SIL used to live right off Burnside, near Providence Park (her place was pretty loud during Timbers games)
Would it help if I told you it was raining where I am at the moment? :)
I still have a lot of family in WA and try to avoid talking about the weather from about Nov-July. My family in MI and Japan are still getting snow! But as much as I do love the ocean, and being warm, I still long for seasons (and access to a wide variety of fresh produce!)
Cosmic crisp development took over twenty years here in wash state. Honey crisp is one of the parents of cosmic crisp, called cosmic due to the star-like shiny marks on the apple. Thanks for chance to mention something I know just a little about, while writing fiction is still quite beyond my reach. 😎🍎🍏🍎
The two best of my random four were very close---characters in action, though the actions were small, one with a slower-paced opening, the other dropping me right into the scene. Both were immediately engaging because it was character plus action, however slight that action was. The remaining two were tied for dead last place. Two of the worst ever, in my opinion. One was in second person, the constant use of which I find annoying both to eye and ear, and the other was a first-person narrator determined to be, and seemingly remain, a giant pain-in-the-ass.
All rules should be enforced with two birds, a bear, and a deer.
A suitable alternative would be two birds, a dear, and a beer.
Absolutely. Or: two dear birds and a beer drinking bear.
I'll see your two birds and raise you a beer. Er bear.
And wouldn't the tax code read better! Maybe not easier, but better.
Or wings, venison burger and beer. I will follow any rule that comes with this repast.
One of the birds (the first, of course) should be a goose. In which case we'd need a saber.
Or (ahem) a boot.
Seconded. Does that mean four birds, two bears, and two deer?
Not if we kill the goose.
I can't bear this...^^
If it took a man a week to walk a fortnight how long would it take a bare arsed savage elephant to sandpaper a doe deer, one of those dearly beloved fauna, into a winning whippet?
Yours etcetera, etcetera, ...
Hello Dear George Saunders. I Hope you re doing well. I think this time you can read my comment since it is Thursday. I am proud to announce you that I have translated your precious Lincoln in the Bardo into Farsi language and it is well received in Iran by the readers. I would be so happy if I could send you a copy of it.
Best Regards,
Yashin Azadbeigi
Yes, Yashin, thank you - email me at storyclubwithgeorge@gmail.com please.
Positively I will do that. Thank you so much for giving me your email. It's a big honor for me.
How about posting a short example? Would love to see it.
Dear Michael, do you mean posting a short example in Farsi translation?? Some lines or a paragraph??
I'd go for a short paragraph. Try to get a feel for the syntax and grammar. (I'm interested in languages.)
Dear Michael, I have to apologize you and other friends for not having a strong English. Because I am not a native speaker like you and I am doing my best just to convey the meaning
Not a problem. Glad you're here trying to learn. One day I'll return the favor and try to learn Farsi. ( I'm working on Greek at the moment.)
Thank you so much for all your kindness dear Michael. It would be a great honor for me if you and other friends try to learn Farsi language some day. We have some great classical and modern writers and especially poets in our culture among them I can name Hakim Omar Khayyam. A big philosopher, astronomer, mathematician, historian and poet of the 11th and 12th century whose philosophical quatrains are beautifully translated into English by your Edward Fitzgerald. The most important theme in his poems is Carpie diem or Sieze the Day. This theme can also be found in the poems of the seventeenth English Metaphysical Poets such as George Herbert and Andrew Marvell. By the way, learning Greek would be a wonderful experience and I congratulate you for your endeavor. Positively Reading Greek Mythology in It's original language will give you so much joy and pleasure and you have motivated me to pay attention to this language too
Hunger of the Pine/ This is all yours^^
Farsi looks so beautiful on the page - I worked for a short while some years ago with an elderly exiled poet who wrote in Farsi and did not speak much English. How I wish I had been able to read the script. It would be really lovely to see an example of your Saunders translation.
That's very kind of you dear Vanessa. What a beautiful experience you have had. Would you please tell me the name of that Persian Exiled Poet
I am so sorry, Yashin, but I can't. This was almost twenty years ago - I was then helping at a asylum seekers' centre here in the UK, helping translate where I could, into English. He was elderly then, had had to leave Iran years before after a period in Evin Prison... All he would tell us was his initials. K. R.
He wrote his story for a book I was helping to compile and edit, 'Refuge - Stories of Survival and Escape' (QueenSpark Books, Brighton, UK., published 2004). He wrote in Farsi, and it was translated for the book by Iranian colleagues. He asked for his handwritten pages back afterwards, saying his handwriting had got him into trouble before...)
What follows is just two paragraphs.
"The Mullah accompanied me when I left prison. He told me that from now on, I should go by the name of Haj Agha. He said he had saved my life because he thought I was a good man. He said that, if I could leave Iran, I should go, now. If I was arrested a second time, he warned, I would be killed for certain.
From Turkey I went on to travel throughout the world. I visited much of Eastern Europe and Russia, but they didn't hold my interest. I had come from hell and was trying to find Paradise. I travelled to Latin America, still searching, then on to Syria, Jordan, Germany, France, Belgium, Sweden and Norway, The more I travelled, the more I came to realise there are no paradises."
I apologise if this is too much information. However, it gives me pleasure to revisit K R's words after some years. If you would like me to send you scans of his whole story, please contact me via my website ; vanessagebbie.com
Wow. This is such a great thing to share. I’d love to read his whole story.
Thank you so much dear Vanessa for all your information. This information is really precious. I guess that Persian exiled poet had been a Political Prisoner. Unfortunately it is more than fourty two years that the Iranian people and intellectuals are living under a dictator brutal regime of the Mullahs. The Evin Prison is one of the most horrifying prisons in the world full of tortures for the Prisoners especially those who are Political. After the golden time of Pahlavi Monarchy in Iran the foolish revolution of 1979 brought so much misery, poverty, sensorshipe, execution and desolation for the people of this country. It is weird that the left wing intellectuals were the true leaders of this stupid revolution but they were also the first victims of this event. Perhaps that Persian Exiled poet has had the same destiny
That's very kind of you dear friend. I really appreciate your compliments. The translating of Lincoln in the Bardo into Farsi language almost lasted more than two years for me and most of the readers and critics believe that it is the most faithful and the best among the other translations
Thank you so much dear friend. Those who are the literature worms know that George Saunders is undoubtedly the master of writing short stories. So when he annouced that Lincoln in the Bardo is his first novel all his readers expected to face a big literary work with full of wonders. Nafir Press in Iran provided the book and it's manager chose me as the translator of this strange unique novel. That was really a hard job because of the difficulty of the writer's prose for me but finally I could present a faithful translation of the novel into Farsi after more than two years
I automatically rated them in order of which stories interested me enough to keep me reading.
The number one spot went to an opening that had a seed of a mystery in it. Someone knocked on the main character's door. So in my head, I went: "Who's that knocking on your door late at night? Who is this that you're not expecting?" Caught me! I'm interested!
Number Two went to a story that didn't have such an obvious catch. It didn't open with one of those sentences that grabs you. But it was enough to intrigue me with a voice, a personality. I could see that, most likely, the story was going to head someplace very soon. I'd probably keep reading this one. But it wasn't as well-done as story Number One.
Number Three just bored me. It was a story that i would call unconventional in form. But it was too "done." Too much thought went into being unconventional. And there was nothing there to hold onto. Still, it got more points than the story that came in last place, because at least the author was attempting to be interesting.
The bottom place (Number Four) went to a story that was also unconventional in form. But this one was just impossible to grasp. I'd have to read that paragraph over a few times to understand it. And that was asking too much of me.
So, what was obvious to me from this exercise is that I like a good opening, one that lets me know i'm in good hands. One that says: You are about to be taken off into a world and it's going to PAY OFF in the end. There is a confidence in the writing. There is a respect for me as the reader. There is none of this fucking around business of trying too hard. (Now i like an unconventional story as much as anyone--but not these particular ones. I had no confidence in them.)
I know what you mean about something being too "done." I like stories to feel effortless. When I can feel the exertion of the writer in the words, it takes me out of it; I am paying attention to the process, not the story.
Yes! When I can see the writer writing, it’s all I can think about.
yes, this is it exactly.
Omg, Mary! I can’t believe someone on here is challenging you to a duel of words. It would be cracking me up if it wasn’t so deranged.
I wish there was a way to send private messages, but since there’s not I just wanted to drop you a line to say I think you are thoughtful, fun, wonderful and I’ve got your back, girl.
Thanks, Sara. I debated long and hard whether to attempt a conversation. Oh, well. Here's hoping George doesn't kick me off the substack!
I just had a lengthy "representation matters" conversation with an old classmate (on social media) and felt the same temptation to make an attempt, but lord, I'm tired. I'm guessing you were brave enough to go there. Thank you, Mary!
Thank you, Manami. The current divisive climate is so depressing. Angry people yelling at one another gets everyone exactly nowhere. In these types of conversations, someone always feels attacked. I believe in keeping lines of communication open, but it seems I may not have found the right approach. Well. I tried! Next time, i probably will go with my initial reaction, which was to just ignore. (But ignoring gets us nowhere, too. I guess a person just can't win.) I appreciate the support very, very much.
I'm all for open, constructive communication! But boy, is it hard to do that over politics (and even harder over the internet). I had a sneaking suspicion the purpose of the comment was just to vent, since it was so unrelated to our exercise, and a bad feeling about where engaging with it might lead.
Back when George mentioned sharing some writing on culture and politics here in Story Club, my first thought was "oh please don't." Not because I don't want to read what he might have to say on those topics—I do!—but I hate to imagine what will happen to our generally lovely comments section.
Maybe a piece like that could be just for paid subscribers? I feel like the majority of Story Club members are kind and thoughtful people, and even if they disagree with a post could discuss it somewhat reasonably.
Every once in a while we seem to get a loose cannon in here, but I love to see how other commenters swoop in to diffuse the situation. (Although I am pretty sure I just did the opposite with my last comment! 😬)
Yes, I missed the whole thing, I was so focused on the “what’s the best apple ” string.
I didn’t see your initial conversation with him, just his angry, ranting response. I started and erased quite a few responses but then decided against it. He’s obviously spent a lot of time dwelling on his (real or imagined) grievances, and I don’t think anything we say is going to break through that.
yes, i actually began and erased several as well. I kept hoping someone else would respond.... I tried to word it in such a way that he wouldn't feel attacked, but obviously i completely failed. Someone else posted to him now, and I think they did a good job--but he wasn't happy with that post, either. From his response, it looks possible that he's done with the Club. Hard to tell, though. Oy! Thanks for having my back. It is MUCH appreciated.
Ignoring can be complicit....when it is important to you..Always stand your ground^^
Just arrived, don't know what I missed, but I can't believe George would ever kick you off this substack. I know I'd miss you, your honesty, and deep-reaching insights!
Thank you, Traci! A bit of an exhausting evening here. Thank you for the support.
Two girls in a fox hole...very dangerous^^
Not Pistols?^^
"I automatically rated them in order of which stories interested me enough to keep me reading."
That is exactly what I noted about myself...
On what criteria? What I was most interested in… what presented itself to me as going somewhere that would feel, well, just that would feel… what sounded like a heartfelt voice, coming from somewhere richly colourful, dark blue and golden too… what went in clean (not necessarily easy, I mean, but without jarring me out of the reading… though I don’t mind a narrative presence, I do seem to mind an authorial presence)
What put me off? Actually, modern things seemed to put me off a bit, or, rather, whimsical modern stuff.
Also rated them in order of which ones I wanted to keep reading.
I like that very direct and simple insight -- did I want to keep reading? I can't imagine a better way to rate them.
I found this exercise not nearly as easy as it sounds, for some reason! I tried it with a random sampling from a stack of a well-known and highly regarded lit mag, the issues between 1-2 yrs old.
Full disclosure: no GS stories were harmed in the attempting of this exercise.
I only liked the opening of one story, and I can't even tell why, except that it was dialogue, in the form of a question, extremely short (one sentence), and a little bit funny, seemingly.
The other 8 (I actually did the exercise twice with two different random samplings, so in fact, more like 16 stories) didn't do much for me. I'm not sure I would have continued reading any of them unless forced somehow.
I'm just being honest here.
I know it sounds bad.
If I say I prefer good writing over not good, will that do it?
But I can't say that any of what I didn't particularly care about was not good writing.
Just kinda boring. To me.
The sense of bodily risk I am experiencing right now must be nothing but a ghostly shiver of lives I could have lived but didn't.
In any case, I was getting a little bit worried about how and why I could not care for so many story openings, and was relieved when I actually found one I liked.
Maybe it's something about a writer's relationship to their own writing that comes through somehow to the reader? Separate from content or subject matter? I'd say ease or command, if that made any sense. But the more I think about this the more mysterious the whole thing seems to be.
I think this is really honest & insightful - I say trust/endorse it!
Oh, thanks! OK, I will! I was just thinking of deleting my comment and trying it again tomorrow : )
Amanda: self doubt, the writer's evil twin.
Hey Amanda, not sure if your reactions here reflect your broader literary tastes, but FWIW I dislike a lot of what I read, including things the rest of the universe regards as brilliant, profound, and life-changing. I tell myself I've developed this hyper-discriminating filter so that I'm better able to appreciate the stuff I do like, and to keep edging closer to the writer I want to be.
Either that or my negativity dial is cranked to 11. Or possibly both?
Anyway, as the saying goes, there's no accounting for radical preference.
I'm with you, Barry. Anything hyped as "life-changing", in my opinion, usually stands a good chance of being something other than.
It’s not practically possible to care for every story opening. At one time, I would feel similarly sad or guilty about passing over stories that other writers and editors have laboured over. I suspect it’s a misplaced form of empathy. However, with so many demands on our attention these days, I think we honour ourselves and the very real limits on our time when we attend to what we care about, without apology. You don’t need to summon negative energy to pass over 15 out of 16 stories. ‘Not for me’ works!
"In any case, I was getting a little bit worried about how and why I could not care for so many story openings, and was relieved when I actually found one I liked."
That's exactly how I felt doing this exercise. I try to read a lot of lit mags, and I often ask myself what the point is, because it is just so rare to find stories, poems, etc that I enjoy, or that a magazine has at least some work I enjoy with every issue. Maybe I'm reading the wrong magazines? I'm sure my stories are that way to other people just as often.
I had the opposite problem. I chose a literary journal with which I was not familiar (I picked it because of the cover aesthetics) and the four I chose were all (annoyingly) up my alley. I wanted to have a more varied response.
Maybe I should try again like you did.
That would make the exercise a lot more interesting!
Good questions. I hadn't thought in terms of no flow but that might be part of it? On the other hand, I'm not sure I can point to any one objectionable thing about any of the openings I read that didn't speak to me. Probably, if I went back to those same stories and gave them another, more careful read, I would find plenty to like. Maybe, the essence of the exercise is that doing it very quickly, it can tell you something that you otherwise might not know about your preferences if you had dedicated yourself to reading a story all the way through and didn't put so much emphasis on the opening?
soft butter is better^^
You are buttering me up....In Bermuda frozen butter out of the fridge is rock hard..much easier to spread after a little time standing on the counter in the warm air^^
My number one paragraph had a vehicle that was accelerating and braking through traffic and the descriptions made me feel like I was in the vehicle myself. I could feel the stop-start in my own guts and that woke me up and sold me. I felt the most alive and trusting in this paragraph. Felt like something happening rather than a piece of writing.
Second place went to a first-person paragraph written out in a super casual texting style with wild punctuation and all-caps all over the place, tons of swearing, with an edgy, jocular vibe. Loose cannon feelings. The text was kind of hard to read but I dug that the narrative voice was so unafraid and I expected to hear interesting things going forward.
Weirdly enough, my third and fourth choice paragraphs were both descriptions of parties.
The third-place party paragraph painted a nice picture—really nice, I almost put the paragraph at number one because the details were so pleasing, like a great photographic magazine spread —but I couldn’t shake a who-cares feeling. Everything was pretty but nothing felt dangerous.
The party paragraph in fourth place was loooooooong, and it felt like we were moving through a fog of non-lively musing and generalities. I kept moving my eyes forward hoping for something to jump up. Took forever to arrive at one specific party with an interesting thing happening.
I’ve learned that I like to feel like I’m getting bounced around by some force from somewhere, shaken awake.
"Felt like something happening rather than a piece of writing" - that's the BEST experience--and well put!
As someone who is drawn to the lyrical, both as a reader and a writer, I was struck by your line: Everything was pretty but nothing felt dangerous. I must remember that in my own writing!
Ooh same!!
"Everything was pretty but nothing felt dangerous." Nice!
Hi Tina, I love your descriptions of being bounced around and shaken awake! My favorite was cogent, simple and immediate, with high stakes that aroused my curiosity. I picked my second also based on the narrator's voice which emerges quickly in scene. And the third got ranked that way because of the narrator being a little vague and unreliable and long and too descriptive, and the fourth because it was vague writing with philosophical overtones that made me feel like I needed to read it a few times in order to get it. I love this exercise for the permission it gives me to pick my favorites based on my own radical preferences and now I want to go make a list of all those writers I love! Humor is key for me. I like a thinker also, but someone who isn't pretentious. That's a true art, i.e. Elif Batuman.
Based purely on this excercise (but not necessarily on what I believe about myself), I seem to be growing tired of those irony-laden, very Western, very modern, very urbane "observational" openings, and prefer things that immediately create tension and are slightly dark, strange or off-kilter.
I realized that the stories I bristled against the most were the ones where the writing felt in any way confusing—where too many names, for example, were dropped in quick succession, or where specific details were offered in what, to my ear, came off in a clunky way. I've realized that the openings I respond best to are those that are clear, deeply evocative, and pique my curiosity (either by establishing some interesting tension or presenting a character or a scenario that seems off-kilter, strange or otherwise endearing).
I will note, a lot of the stories I love most are ones that drop me into a scenario that will take more than one paragraph to situate myself in, which I see as being distinct from having a sense of "confusion". In general, I think patience is a key thing for a reader to bring to any story. This exercise is making me consider the difference between stories that seem quietly assure me right from the start: "Your patience will be rewarded" and those that don't. I can feel largely unmoored for a couple of paragraphs and still have the sense that I'm in capable hands.
My First Post - I just liked the exercise so much I upped my subscription so I could join you! My top two had similar effects: both delivered something emotionally shocking or surprising, and I wanted *explanations* of what? wait! How did that happen? What are they going to do about it? Third place featured a Cadillac, a mystery, and finicky explanations about weather ("the coldest September in southern Wisconsin" isn't exactly the opening of Bleak House). Fourth - the nervous ramblings of a person who couldn't stop whining, and I didn't want to hear any more. This is interesting to me, as someone who generally resists "drop them into the action" openings - but it wasn't action so much as a situation, and I wanted to know WHY, not just "what happens next." The setting and voice in Three and Four pushed me away; One and Two pulled me toward them.
The story openings I was most attracted to were concerned with a singular character and told in a personal way. Less attractive were those whose voice tended toward the analytical, or far worse, cynical.
I was also put off by cynicism. I think I was also attracted to settings.
Sooo, after getting the instructions wrong again (good grief, how hard can it be?), one paragraph was try-hard (8 lines waxing lyrical) one not-try-hard-enough (8 lines of familiar tropes), and a third plain interminable (25 lines). But the fourth was a 6-line nugget of stillness, unease and suspense. And I can now pinpoint why it worked: escalation. Thanks, George!
By a mile.
I knew this about myself already, and about my reading habits, but the exercise was useful in reminding me that I prefer writing that feels authentic, and that is written in a voice I find believable. I look for that before I look for anything. My paragraphs were ranked according to that principle. Also, the writing in the paragraphs I preferred seemed to match the subject matter in a way, to respect it. First person narratives in particular have to have a voice I feel I can trust. Third person narratives that are related by an omniscient narrator had better be believable, too. In other words, the voice has to have some authority, or the language has to convey a special or intimate knowledge of what is being told. Another thing I noticed in doing this exercise is the importance to me of feeling compelled to continue to read, after the first paragraph has been consumed. The lowest ranked paragraph left me cold; I couldn't care less about what was next. Great assignment!
And by the way, in regard to the "favorite apple" thread, I want to cast my vote for a variety called "Ida Red". I buy them at a farmer's market in Lower Manhattan. They come from the Hudson Valley.
Ida Red is an apple? I'm so happy to know that! There's a fiddle tune called Ida Red. Now I know what the name means.
There are many thousands of apple varieties, and probably more than that many names for them. (There may be as many as 75,000 varieties worldwide, according to one source.) I looked up "Ida Red" and found a site called "Out on a Limb Apples".
"Idared is a fairly recent cross between two classic American heirloom varieties, Jonathan and Wagener. It was bred at the Idaho Experiment Station in 1942. It’s hardy enough to be grown in small quantities in many commercial Maine orchards. The medium-large, round, slightly-ribbed fruit is almost entirely blushed with a cheerful ‘1940′s red.’ The ground color is reminiscent of Jonathan and Prima. Sometimes there’s a russet patch around the stem."
Now I'm curious about the phrase "cheerful '1940's red'".
In that case maybe the apple is named after the Old Time fiddle tune rather than he other way round?
Thanks for all the info! I'm afraid I can shed no light on 'cheerful 1940's red'.
I found apples at the farmer’s market in NYC that I’d never heard of before, one was so good... but I didn’t write down the name and poof, it never came to me again. I’ll be in Hudson in a few months so I’ll look for Ida Reds.
I was surprised by how random and silly my choices seemed. 1. had horses 2. a curious little boy and love between mother and son 3. Liked the opening quotes and how they juxtaposed and were funny. 4. too scientific, futuristic and confusing. Still I went on to read them all and in the end enjoy them:)))
I'm having A Day, and this exercise made me happy. I put everything down, got up go do it, with pleasure and relief! It's spring! What fun!
The first paragraph of the first story just hooked me. The character is 72, feeling his age, and just had a stroke. He's saying his good-byes at work. That doesn't sound like something that would make you want to keep reading, but it does. (I also wonder why have I never read this story, sitting on my bookshelf, for God knows how long?) The second story also hooked me, but to a lesser extent. The third story confused me. I had to go back to see who was who. I was confused. The paragraph was long and then he or she went off on a meandering tangent and I was more annoyed than hooked.
My mentor and other readers accuse me of meandering all the time. They always tell me to cut, cut, cut. But in the back of my mind, I resist. I think all of my meanderings are gold. No, they're not. They're boring and they confuse people and it makes them want to stop reading. This exercise drove that fact home very well.
George, thanks for the interesting exercise on radical preference! I bought a literary journal that didn’t end up working for this, but fun to visit a small bookstore. At home, I had several magazines with short fiction pieces that I used instead. I won’t name the magazine. I never looked at the author’s names. After choosing four random numbers between 1 and 9, pulled 9 fiction pieces, numbered the pieces without looking at them at all, and finally, pulled out the ones that fit my random numbers. I read the first paragraph from each one.
Also…just so the club knows, Cosmic Crisp apples and Honey Crisp apples are the best, and that’s just the way it is.
On the break, I had a wonderful snack, some chit chat, (most in the club here with Mary G and Rosanne) a nap, plus some puttering.
The randomly chosen four short fiction first paragraphs were all good, so no hurt feelings even if I did name names.
My numbers were 3, 4, 6, 8.
I chose story #4 as best first paragraph, and then wondered… did I chose it because it was the longest paragraph ever, with lists of the cool things the main guy remembered throughout his life? Was the length a factor…because I was more attached and deeply involved? I want to find out what happens to this guy in the story. Two other pieces in my pile had much shorter paragraphs, and so I didn’t get as much. The last one had a medium size paragraph, but it just didn’t grab me.
In my favorite #4, the writer’s long paragraph featured an older man wondering about how many things he’d forgotten in all his minutes on earth, and this seemed to stop him dead in his tracks. Subject matter drew me in. The older man in this story begins looking back on moments in his life that he does remember. The writing is clear, crisp, this man’s memories–– just the right amount of this or that to set the scene. Just the right amount of information.
I chose #8 as the next “best” paragraph. Strong descriptions of a hat, but not too much. The paragraph ended with an action and I wanted to know what happens in the next paragraph.
Next, #6. The first paragraph again was short, but I wasn’t as interested as the first two. It was fiction, the paragraph ended with a bit of humor, it seemed to be political, and perhaps started out a little less of something for me. I would’ve kept reading it if it wasn’t a part of this lesson, so nothing wrong, it was just that the other two were more compelling.
Last was #3. Not enough in the first paragraph of #3 to get me wondering, what is this short fiction piece about? The narrator is a sporty type, did that make me lose interest? Was it because he was describing his dreams? I lose interest if there’s too much description. That's something I've noticed just in the past few years. Like that one student George mentioned, I also don’t appreciate reading lush descriptions of nature or scenery (a little is fine) and I wonder if that’s because I grew up in a city, right downtown, a real cement ball, with gasoline rainbows and smoggy, brown sunsets. Who knows.
Yes agree, Cosmic Crisp are the best! Long ago I loved me some Fujis, but I feel like they're just watery/sweet nowadays. And are Cameos still around? I don't get enough apple varieties where I live, and am a little too excited for a visit back to WA this fall . . .
Even Trader Joe’s has good organic apples here in Washington. Fujis seem different to me now-- or maybe I was delusional?
I LOVE TJ'S!!!! Despite the Hawaiian theme, there are no (and will probably never be) Trader Joe's in Hawaii (where I live)
You can get Cameos at PCC, the food cooperative. Wow Hawaii! It’s freezing here right now. The weather has been bizarre, snow, hail storms-- I want to be where you are.
I just realized you are a PNW Story Clubber, too, Stacya! I’m in Portland, and yes - the weather has been bonkers! My kids had a snow day from school on Monday. I mean... what??!
I love Portland! Sara, I thought you were from WA too, for some reason. And Stacya, my SIL used to live right off Burnside, near Providence Park (her place was pretty loud during Timbers games)
It’s a bit alarming. But at least there won’t be water shortages any time soon. I was born in Portland-- we lived on Burnside.
Would it help if I told you it was raining where I am at the moment? :)
I still have a lot of family in WA and try to avoid talking about the weather from about Nov-July. My family in MI and Japan are still getting snow! But as much as I do love the ocean, and being warm, I still long for seasons (and access to a wide variety of fresh produce!)
It’s true the groceries here are so good.
I will give you Cosmic Crisp (quality apple!) , but a hard no on the Honey Crisp!. I seem to be an outlier on this, but I just don’t love them.
They might be gone until next apple season , but try Sugarbee apples if you see them. They were definitely our favorite this past year.
Thank you for the opportunity to nerd out on my (perhaps excessively) strong apple opinions.
Cosmic crisp development took over twenty years here in wash state. Honey crisp is one of the parents of cosmic crisp, called cosmic due to the star-like shiny marks on the apple. Thanks for chance to mention something I know just a little about, while writing fiction is still quite beyond my reach. 😎🍎🍏🍎
I’m in Oregon. We are practically neighbors. 😊
Ok! Now I have an Apple expert! Maybe your fictional story will have to do with Apple farming. A thriller on an Apple farm...
I heard that Russia was one of the biggest customers for apples from our state. I heard that “Apple fact” from another expert.
I always forget Sugarbee! You are so right. Those are amazing!
Yep. My radical preferences for apples list Honeycrisp as #1 and Cosmic Crisp as #2. And Red Delicious as #7, 499.
Someone reminded me about Sugar Bee apples. You’ll like those, too.
I haven't seen those in these parts, but I'll keep my eyes peeled.
If your #8 is the story that I think it is, give it a go & read on. You'd be in good hands & thus rewarded.
Wow. I just read it. I’ll follow that writer now-- I’m drawn to anything about cons, cults, pathological liars.
Hahaha! I did want to read that one, will do. All were good, and it’s a reminder not to let my pile get so big.
Define "big". Ha!
Fire hazard big!
The two best of my random four were very close---characters in action, though the actions were small, one with a slower-paced opening, the other dropping me right into the scene. Both were immediately engaging because it was character plus action, however slight that action was. The remaining two were tied for dead last place. Two of the worst ever, in my opinion. One was in second person, the constant use of which I find annoying both to eye and ear, and the other was a first-person narrator determined to be, and seemingly remain, a giant pain-in-the-ass.