94 Comments

Thanks for the suggestions on the process, George! I love this course and the thoughtful comments. But it's been a little frustrating that there are SO many comments and I don't have time to read/absorb them all and am not able to sift through them in a useful way. Because of the way my job flows (I work Sunday to Thursday), I often comment/do the exercises late and feel like I'm TOO late. So putting some time between reading and commenting for everyone....I appreciate that.

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You know, I have commented right away on a couple posts and felt I was too early, and then didn’t post a comment for a couple days on other posts and felt like it was late. And then on some posts I commented right in the middle of the prime commenting time and it seemed like there were so many comments coming through that they got lost in the shuffle.

All of that to say… I now have reached peace with the comments. I try to read as many as I can - because they are great! - but I know I can’t keep up with all of them. And there will never be a perfect time to comment, but as long as I feel I am engaged in the lessons George is making available, I’m pretty content.

I recognize your name from other posts, and comments you have made, so you are definitely making an impact here!

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Yes, Terzah and Sara - there are so many comments and I think it would be impossible to keep up. I am doing my best but know I am missing many. My advice would just be to dip in as convenient. I sometimes remind my students (there in the dazzle of the MFA program) that it's not a bad thing to slightly keep the focus on ourselves and our progress - the point, actually, is not maximal participation, but fastest growth...

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Thank you, this is very helpful advice :)

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Agree with Stephanie! Thanks, George!

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I am finding it useful to take a break when overwhelmed, to do, or to work on, something else. The posts seem to be moving around quite a bit when new ones pour in, so I often discover gems I hadn't seen before when I am viewing a like or a reply. Trying to balance the joy of being in the middle of things with the joy of solitude.

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Think of reading the flow of comments of being watching the flow of water in a river Sara?

You’ll never see but a fraction of what flows even when it is a young, narrow upland stream, never mind when it is big broad beauty easing out to sea. And of course when The Substack is in spate after post after post have been rained into its threaded it can feel like being deluged at The Falls.

Sampling a fraction is fine, and coming back to pay a thread another visit is dandy?

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Good advice! Or maybe the creative forces will send us all straight to the posts we most need to see, if that's not too esoteric.

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"creative forces will send us all straight to the posts we most need to see" Yes. Working full time as an elementary school educator in central New York, tangled up in the post-lockdown chaos of the wild, wild, west that public EDU is in right now (who is in quarantine? who does not want anyone to know they are on quarantine? Wait--is it ON or IN quarantine? ) is draining. On Sunday mornings I check in with this stream, to see what I am supposed to see. Write on. :)

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Thanks, Sara! That's good advice!

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Having the same problem. I assume some intrepid soul is developing a book proposal for "The Collected Comments of the Story Club with George Saunders"? (Which I would totally buy.)

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Yes, at least it might have an index!

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Definitely mention that in the proposal...

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I have taught with an organization called Prison Writes founded by Jessica Hall. You can contact her at contact@prisonwrites.org. I also run groups for medical professionals through the Arnold P. Gold Foundation. They might be able to identify a med student. Contact Brianne Alcala at balcala@gold-foundation.org.

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I know an organization “Write Around Portland” that goes into prisons and all sorts of challenged communities. I’ve sent an email to a friend who has worked for them. Maybe something will come of it.

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There's a place in Seattle called "WITS" that has around 25 teachers who work with teens and young adults. I just sent the info to them. They're into it!

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Re scholarships: I reached out to colleagues at The Telling Room in Maine. I'll keep you posted. https://www.tellingroom.org/

Marion

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That looks like a great organization! I passed on some information to some writing teachers at UCSF through the Writing Salons Round Robin class. They might have some eligible students there.

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Thank you for your remarkable generosity

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Hello George. I am behind on the emails, but am enjoying the journey. I have an off-topic question. Ocean Vuong, in an interview with The Paris Review says this: "...if we must think in metaphoric structures, then I would rather say the novel is a town square - a space where people converge, where they'll see these characters, see me, see each other, then go on home, perfect just as they are." I admit I've never thought about storytelling in this way, but I do find it striking. (Reading Middlemarch for the third time, I'm particularly curious about viewing that novel through his metaphor.) I wonder if you have any response or reaction to the image. Thank you.

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Question: is it possible to post a picture of the drawing/chart/whatever on here?

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I've tried a few different things and nothing has worked (re posting images in the comments.) Hmm.

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Their is also Google Drive. Its been used in classes I’ve taken with a link—it can be set as ‘by invitation only’ or open. This class is a huge project. I think you may need an assistant or if you have one then an assistant to the assistant, etc. LOL

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On reddit people will often post a link to their uploaded image on https://imgur.com/

I've never done that myself so don't know what's involved in setting up an account but seems pretty low-tech (relatively speaking).

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It obviously is for George but, for me at least (writing as often times visual writer) it is and should be the words, the words and the words that are going to be crucial to we Story Clubbers in the Word Forges that are the Crucibles of Our Imaginations.

I should say I live in that part of the formerly heavily industrial West Midlands, close by The Black Country (some contend) or in the heart of it (others counter). Word Bashing is much more our business than Photo Shopping, I’d suggest.

What do others think?

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Oh! Photoshop would end me. I was thinking low tech scribbling on a page in my class journal - photographing and sending. I’m sure George will come up with a fix — or not. It’s all good.

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Yes it is. All good. 🎯

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Has "An Incident" been posted yet? I watch for new installments of Story Club, but can't seem to become legit...that is, although I've paid my subscription, the email continue to go to Promotions instead of Inbox, and I'm pretty sure that club members' comments get lost... How can I get up to speed, please? Substack baffles me... Sorry, and thanks.

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The story ("An Incident") will be posted tomorrow (Thursday). George posts on Thursdays and Sundays, so check your Promotions tab on those days. If you click at the top of this page where it says "Story Club with George Saunders" it should take you to an archive page. Not everything will appear--go to the bottom of the list and click "See All." Then all of George's newsletters will appear. There is a way to see all the comments for each post. After you read what George has written, there will be a spot where you can click on "more comments." I hope I've covered everything, but ask more questions if you're still having trouble.

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Thank you so much, Mary!

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One last thing: the paywall is not up yet. So you will continue to find George's posts in your Promotions for now.

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Another interesting factor in this approach, which I look forward to, is forming a view of the story without the comments. I gleaned tons from CatRain comments that I'd "missed" in the story, partly because of our piecemeal approach to it, and partly because I just miss lots of shit. I'll be interested to see how my opinion forms without so much help :)

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Agree. I find little time to dive into comments and when I do it's often a deep and time consuming dive; beneficial and enjoyable, but not something I can do often. And when I don't comment or read, I feel very absent. And when I do, I always end up feeling there's just no way I can ever read all these great comments, and being someone who often needs very little encouragement to be discouraged, there it all goes.

That said, I do enjoy being here very much. I had a couple great classes in college that, for a variety of reasons, I had only sporadic attendance, and it was always a sad joy to return: sad to realize what I must have missed, joyful to be there.

I want so much more of this, but the sad cry of my life these days? There's not enough time! (There's not enough energy takes a close second). Working this hard at this age wasn't what I was aiming for.

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A Lifer is sitting still. alone, in his isolated cell.

The Guard, the compassionate one, wraps the door and, on hearing The Lifer's "Come on in", does as he is bid.

"Not sure what this is Linus. There's at least some good news. It has cleared Censorship."

The Guard holds the envelope out towards Linus, close-up to the old guy's eyes. So that he can discern the word 'PASSED', officiously stamped big, brash and bright in Sherwood Forest Green, despite his macular degeneration issues.

"Why Boss? Why now? After so many years of being notified, way late, of 'RED - REJECTED' decisions by those gleeful bastards in Censorship?"

"Can't rightly say Linus, but what I do say is this. Let me slice this open, right away. Have me a looksee; then read it, quietly, aloud to you?"

"Sounds like a plan Boss. Go ahead. And, whatever it says, thanks Boss."

The Guard doesn't tear. He troubles to fish a flat edge from his shirt pocket and slices. He shucks the printed writing pad page out of its flimsier envelope, unfolds it, scans it and whistles.

Linus listens patiently. then says "What's it got to say for itself Boss?"

"Well, first up Linus its from some body or other callin' itself the 'George Saunders Story Club'."

"Never heard of any such . . . "

"But they've heard tell of you Linus . . . says here they hear you are legend . . . "

"I never saw let alone laid hands on that . . . "

"Hold up Linus. Listen. Relax. Let me finish . . . where was I . . . uhm, yes . . . 'legendary story teller' . . . tells it like he always has . . . exactly as he sees it."

"Aw! What's new Boss? I don't kowtow to anyone. Never did, never will. Everyone, short of a seriously pissed Duck Billed Platypus, knows how I can pull together, turn and tell a tale with a twist from scratch, given the least provocation."

"Seems, reading close and careful as I can, that this George Saunders guy and some, at least, of his Clubbers want to offer you a scholars' subscription for the full of the year ahead."

"What?"

"No I'm suspicious.

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Marina owned the woolshed. She was the Queen of everything that happened and even the muscley brown boys in lanolin jeans who tried on a daily basis to out shear her…..accepted this. That is until Rom arrived. All swagger and sweat he took breaks alone. He spoke little and let his shears do the talking.

The challenge.

“Ok so you blokes think you’re getting closer to being top dog in here?”, Marina directed this to the sweaty crew gathered..

Rom raised his head slightly higher than normal.

“ So here it is…I reckon I can shear a sheep blindfolded. No cuts..good quality and in under 30 seconds”.

Rom moved forward.

“It can’t be done”, Rom’s first ever sentence cut the summer air and drifted around the cedar walls.

“Finally…a bloke with real balls”, scoffed Marina. “ well come on up ya come, I’ll go first so you can see what you’re up against”.

Marina reached behind her and grabbed a waiting ewe. A smile swam across her mouth and she flicked her oily hair behind her. Her right hand reached into her worn apron and pulled out a piece of black cloth which she effortlessly tied around the sheep’s head.

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It is that word 'effortlessly' that I notice, am held by, on first fast read through. Neat short Rod. The Lifer would love to listen, learn and lay it back, embellished, in is own inimitable - indeed legendary - way.

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Thank you...late and quite possibly broke all the rules...story of my life

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Please let this not be fiction.

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Usually I really struggle to learn from the authors I love most, Because every time I try to read them with the “learning hat” on, I slip into the beauty of their story, and before I know it, I have spent twenty minutes reading my favourite novel, enjoying it very much, but learning nothing about why I loved it. I’m so happy we will continue to read in slow motion. I look forward to reading Lu Hsun.

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Some of learning to write by reading other authors is turning off your emotional brain and looking at a story like a carpenter banging boards together. When I'm working on something and I'm not sure how to write it, I'll go back to work that's similar and take a look at how a writer says something, sometimes sentence by sentence. How do they describe something physically? How do they say something emotionally? If it's something that there for no immediately apparent reason, is it a "Chekov's Gun"? As they say, "First you write from the heart, then you write from the head..."

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Does this process work well for you?

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Thank you, Aurora, that sounds like my experience as well. Because, when the writing and the story are really great, everything else falls away and I am inside the world of the book. It probably requires several more very slow passes to get into the mechanics of how and why it's working. I remember being eleven and wondering, why can't I do this like they can? I am still wondering about that. I suppose one reason is that, when it works really well and the story comes alive, all the hard work and craft and thought and experience and sweat and tears involved in multiple have become invisible.

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Exactly. and then the writer disappears within the words and what is left is only the story… but slow reading works very well for me, because it breaks the flow and force me to stop following the meaning. Only I can’t self discipline myself and slow read when I have the whole text in front of me…

Yes, I fell I’m far from that magic too… but I’m hopeful… we need to trust the process!!

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Well said, I agree.

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What's the catch George? Will we have to "just read" the story upside down? Spinning in a chair? Dancing under the light of the full moon?

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Yes, all three at once, Kevin. It can be done. 😉

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I think this model is a good idea. And perhaps some questions for us to think about as we’re free-writing?

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Mostly you just want to look back at that first reading and see what you felt & where.

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'Marya Vasilyevna', the name that quite definitely came to mind early in my first reading. She's stayed in my mind in each reading since, though the road she travelled was in Russia, she travelled in a cart and her migration had been urban to rural. Not in the opening sentence, but not too much further in. Not the only thing I saw in my first reading, but the sense of some kind of parallel was strong.

I've never read 'An Incident' before, nor heard of its author Lu Hsun before. What a story road you are journeying us along George: Saunders (1996), Hemingway (1925) and now Lu Hsun (1920 . . . my first reading being of the first version popped up via online search, published on the Marxist Internet Archive 2005 . . . another new-one-on-me). Thank you George, kindly.

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That sounds copacetic! (This is Benji Axelrod - my other account.) Also, I re-read "Master and Man" this morning. I have so many thoughts. Everyone here should read it, when you have a spare 90 minutes!

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I thought of Write Girl right away. This is the org that Amanda Gorman was a part of as a teen. https://www.writegirl.org/

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I feel so much regret from this narrator left empty by his influential career and haunted by an incident he cannot bring himself to accept for what it says about him. On my first time reading I was poised to judge him harshly, especially in comparison to the rickshaw driver, but returning to the story after a pause I see someone struggling (for years) to accept a truth about himself made plain by his actions that day. And as he cannot find that kindness for himself the memory grows stronger, the details more telling, until they become a recurring nightmare of sorts.

Thanks for the guidance to reading.

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Phase 1 -The incident

Patai - Questions from initial reading

How much of the history of that time is required by the reader?

What price humanity?

Why the reminder of 'no witnesses...empty streets?

What is offered at S gate?

Did the narrator commit some kind of terrible deed?

Master and Man.....reversal of the relationships?

Walking away and getting bigger ....metaphor for?

Has he truly reformed?

The power - or not - of money as agency

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