My wife got me a copy of 'Where the Deer and the Antelope Play' for Christmas. I'm only a little ways in, but so far at least Offerman never says HOW you all know each other. Syracuse professor + Hollywood actor + touring musician = ???
A star-studded photo… and you forgot to mention they were on Trigger and Champion!
Ye gods - Follicle envy. Not sure if I could muster a pony-tail nowadays. It grows faster out of my ears than on my head. And the price of tweezers. My life.
”I really have so much affection for being alive. I really enjoy it. And yet, I’m a little negative minded in a lot of ways too, like I really think things tend to be fucked up. ... To get that on the page—to sufficiently praise the loveliness of the world without being a sap, and also lacerate the world for being so goddamn mean—to do those in the same story would be a great aspiration. And I haven’t gotten there yet.”
“Maybe you would understand your artistry to be: put me anywhere. I'll find human beings, I'll find human interest, I'll find literature. And I guess you could argue the weirder, or maybe the less explored the place, the better.”
^^ This is the episode with an icon Podcasting Moment that someone here turned into a loving-kindness meditation they do EVERY DAY...)
It's business time - all paid up! I'm regretfully assuming that complimentary Story Club Merch ("the first rule of Story Club is do not talk about Story Club. The Second Rule of Story Club is do talk about George's Pony Tail") and mugs aren't part of the deal. The idea being kicked around of pods/groups to share writing sounds great, as a big part of the value here is in the community, and starting to get the hive mind working on some writing in micro-groups would be really helpful (at least for me, and I hope for some others). It might be pushing our collective tech boundaries, but Discord is quite handy for this kind of stuff.......
Just a comment. I'm glad you have made this a subscription service George. One of the things I noticed in The Falls (as well as Chekhov actually) is that money is important in life. It is important to Morse and Cummings in their stories. And I think a subscription is an indication that a subscriber is going to take this seriously, it means something to them. So well done !
I participated in a one-liner prompt yesterday - a few images came up, and I started writing it and got stuck once the follow up sentences ran its course - which is when I remembered Morse/Cummings/Hal - would you suggest {only according to George from the first lesson..} - that I should envision a character for that prompt line and describe them fully as a way of beginning a prompt.
There are many ways.. but from what you have said so far, maybe this is one of the more potent ones?
Also just started reading the link - 'how Lincoln in the Bardo' came along - you had this idea for a long time, and you/a character built a model railroad and a man and woman faced each other... ] That is where I stopped reading that link..need to get back to it today and get the above picture more correct in my memory. Hope above depiction is close to being correct.
Ooo, this might be the most appropriate place to put my core questions, because they're all connected with How This Space Works/ What You Are Hoping to Co-Create with us Here. (And: how!)
First--I've been trying to gather a sense of what your heart hopes and goals are for this space--and those of the people who are coming to it–
* “capture the liveliness of social media without the hostility”; make a genuine (large) community/ “class” that’s “still responsible and still stumbles into some kind of new energy”
* here on purpose–"so that makes a really safe, comfortable, fun vibe" (not “being able to weigh in without an investment” unlike with fb)
*”prioritizing interaction” and “closely monitoring the comments section and replying”
* in the spirit of teaching as = "your job is to benefit them in any way you can” [<--LOVE this!] and with *humility* trying to figure out how to be a good listener in this context.” [<--this too!]
* morphing “based on how readers respond"; “give and take” vs. “enforcing a structure”
There are other goals, that you lay out in "Welcome to Story Club":
a) Grow more alert to sentences-as-where-originality begins; b) Become more trusting and honoring of our micro-responses; c) Start seeing short stories everywhere and our life’s meanings essentialized in story forms; And… d) Form a tight and mutually supportive community.
–with the aspiration of doing this for the benefit of ourselves~others~world–
Expressed throughout here amongst the participants: a sense of delight, joy, generosity, excitement, possibility, renewed hope in humanity even and (I lost track of who exactly typed this, apologies!): "this constant Christmas feeling I’m getting from Story Club, created by your warmth and generosity, and the warmth of this community. Pretty special thing going on here."
SYNTHESIS: It feels to me that this space is some complex hybrid of a digital classroom, a social media community-on-purpose (without–hopefully!--hostility, with emotional investment and like-hearted-ness), and the (extra-heartfelt) Comments section of an extra-special blog. It seems to me, this is wanting/ trying to be, (as far as the interpersonal parts that are of both most aspiration and anxiety to me) ***a place of trust and connection, of learning-together and daring to… dream a bit, to take risks. ***
Keeping a space this new, this giant, this scattered... in which it feels okay to take risks is–No Small Ask!
QUESTIONS~SUGGESTIONS:
1) GROUP ENGAGMENT: To the degree this is like a giant (benevolent) fb group– (and they do exist, I’ve been in them!): I wonder if borrowing some of the better innovations of such spaces might be helpful? For instance: Group Agreements. Moderation Assistance. Administrative Help of various kinds.
(I hear that you’re not wanting to *enforce a structure* but--perhaps this might be done lightly, in response to an intuitive feel of the group as it forms and changes? Not heavy-handed moderation but... like a grad student assistant or two that help out sometimes?? )
a) Clear (and explicitly agreed-to) Group Agreements (for instance, around expressing one’s self kindly, not offering unasked-for advice, reading and even replying to 2 comments for every 1 comment you make) can be transformative in limiting the (so far very rare) negative kinds of engagement, and, protecting the warm, supportive energy in this space... (This space seems to have a clear energy but--I do think explicit group agreements--ideally more specific than "don't be mean"--*really* help things like this.)
b) Multiple Moderators/ Moderation Assistants are–I think, a life saver and a way for a group creator to not get burnt out. Not that we all don’t wish there weren’t four of YOU. It seems to make people’s day when you reply. I adore that commitment to prioritizing interaction & replying. But–I’ve never seen a space this giant with only one moderator. That’s a LOT of monitoring for one person. Impossible to see & synthesize everything.
Along those lines: I wonder if it might be helpful to have more people reading and replying? (Even if just in the, talk-once-respond-twice rule?) And doing other moderating sorts of things?
Mind you–beyond a bit of strategizing like this, I don’t think I could myself actively volunteer on a regular basis. But–from the start I’ve visualized this, and my own engagement here, as being as much like a *real* classroom as possible. And “after” class, hanging around, letting people know I heard and liked what they said. And when people have done that for me–even when they’re not you!--it makes me feel more real, visible here–and like I *actually* belong. Sharing and hearing nothing is confusing, and can feel like it’s a message of rejection (TLDR, you’re too weird) or non-belonging. Just a thought, to consider making prioritizing inter-group interaction (and creating some supports for this) a deliberate thing.
c) Another thing Administrative Helpers might do–Perhaps post (somewhere?) a list of FAQs with a twist: Things that are both immensely practical (for ex, details around how subscribing works you’ve answered in the comments) and also, writerly advice directly from you in response to highly specific questions. I imagine there’s a specialness to stumbling into such things by serendipity, but also, much could get lost and need being repeated. Especially as the posts and Comments grow. (And having the list might inspire revisits and ongoing convos--LIKE A REAL CLASS!!--In a group this large with so much digital and disjointed conversation, most will never even "hear" that amazing conversation.)
2) PODS: Self-organizing pods by location, but also, *Sensibility* in terms of the *kinds* of creative feedback people enjoy giving and receiving. (I already sense a HUGE spectrum of preferences around that, here.) Also, perhaps organizing by preferences like–Hoping to pair some of the reading with writing by non-whiteeuromales.
3) WILD IDEA: CRAZY suggestion but–maybe having one or two Coffee Hours? (Perhaps in the form of a zoom meet-up?) With you in attendance or not? Maybe to ask more directly how people are feeling, sensing into where people are and aren’t feeling invited-in? Gather other suggestions?
4) EH: A bold, perhaps impolite wondering: Might volunteers who contributed significant time receive a free subscription? Perhaps this might be a way of offering a sort of... work-study scholarship option? It’s awful to ask, it’s the ugly logic of capitalism, in which Time=Money.
5) PLEASE let me know: Who did the graphic design work for Story Club? It's so lovely and charming, and conveys so much of the desired feel, is so just-right. Is so much like the--illustrations on the books I loved as a child that paired perfectly with the stories.
(If I could afford it, they're the designer I'd want for my thing!)
6) Was this okay? Is this the kind of thing you want to hear about?
Hiya, George. Great photos. I say keep the ponytail and, if you do, you might also consider trading in your acoustic guitar for electric. Can you play the guitar with your teeth? I've heard all the cool writers are doing it.
Looking forward to digging into Hemingway this week. As ever, thank you for sharing your time and expertise.
Speaking of mansplaining: technically, Mr. Offerman is on YOUR left and Mr. Tweedy is on YOUR right. I say this not because I enjoy correcting celebrated, award-winning writers I love, but because my petty, jealous ass knows deep down that writing a comment here is by far the closest I will ever get to the indisputably best horseback ride ever. Seriously, that picture makes me like all three of you even more, which hardly seemed possible.
My wife got me a copy of 'Where the Deer and the Antelope Play' for Christmas. I'm only a little ways in, but so far at least Offerman never says HOW you all know each other. Syracuse professor + Hollywood actor + touring musician = ???
A star-studded photo… and you forgot to mention they were on Trigger and Champion!
Ye gods - Follicle envy. Not sure if I could muster a pony-tail nowadays. It grows faster out of my ears than on my head. And the price of tweezers. My life.
Tweedy! Seems like a lifetime ago seeing Wilco at The Horseshoe Tavern. But...yeah, I know, this is about writing...then again, isn't everything?
That is a gold standard PT
Love the ponytail!
THIS! TODAY! (When is George sleeping?) https://longform.org/posts/longform-podcast-75-george-saunders
”I really have so much affection for being alive. I really enjoy it. And yet, I’m a little negative minded in a lot of ways too, like I really think things tend to be fucked up. ... To get that on the page—to sufficiently praise the loveliness of the world without being a sap, and also lacerate the world for being so goddamn mean—to do those in the same story would be a great aspiration. And I haven’t gotten there yet.”
(And if you've never heard the one before: https://longform.org/posts/longform-podcast-75-george-saunders:
“Maybe you would understand your artistry to be: put me anywhere. I'll find human beings, I'll find human interest, I'll find literature. And I guess you could argue the weirder, or maybe the less explored the place, the better.”
^^ This is the episode with an icon Podcasting Moment that someone here turned into a loving-kindness meditation they do EVERY DAY...)
It's business time - all paid up! I'm regretfully assuming that complimentary Story Club Merch ("the first rule of Story Club is do not talk about Story Club. The Second Rule of Story Club is do talk about George's Pony Tail") and mugs aren't part of the deal. The idea being kicked around of pods/groups to share writing sounds great, as a big part of the value here is in the community, and starting to get the hive mind working on some writing in micro-groups would be really helpful (at least for me, and I hope for some others). It might be pushing our collective tech boundaries, but Discord is quite handy for this kind of stuff.......
Just a comment. I'm glad you have made this a subscription service George. One of the things I noticed in The Falls (as well as Chekhov actually) is that money is important in life. It is important to Morse and Cummings in their stories. And I think a subscription is an indication that a subscriber is going to take this seriously, it means something to them. So well done !
Good Morning George:
I participated in a one-liner prompt yesterday - a few images came up, and I started writing it and got stuck once the follow up sentences ran its course - which is when I remembered Morse/Cummings/Hal - would you suggest {only according to George from the first lesson..} - that I should envision a character for that prompt line and describe them fully as a way of beginning a prompt.
There are many ways.. but from what you have said so far, maybe this is one of the more potent ones?
Also just started reading the link - 'how Lincoln in the Bardo' came along - you had this idea for a long time, and you/a character built a model railroad and a man and woman faced each other... ] That is where I stopped reading that link..need to get back to it today and get the above picture more correct in my memory. Hope above depiction is close to being correct.
Thank you and wishing everyone a fantastic day...
Hi George .. nice ponytail ! How long will the ‘course “ run ?
Ooo, this might be the most appropriate place to put my core questions, because they're all connected with How This Space Works/ What You Are Hoping to Co-Create with us Here. (And: how!)
First--I've been trying to gather a sense of what your heart hopes and goals are for this space--and those of the people who are coming to it–
(Btw, stumbling into this was hugely helpful in that regard: https://lithub.com/george-saunders-is-testing-how-big-a-writing-class-can-get/)--
BASIC INFO GATHERED:
From the Lith Hub article:
* “capture the liveliness of social media without the hostility”; make a genuine (large) community/ “class” that’s “still responsible and still stumbles into some kind of new energy”
* here on purpose–"so that makes a really safe, comfortable, fun vibe" (not “being able to weigh in without an investment” unlike with fb)
*”prioritizing interaction” and “closely monitoring the comments section and replying”
* in the spirit of teaching as = "your job is to benefit them in any way you can” [<--LOVE this!] and with *humility* trying to figure out how to be a good listener in this context.” [<--this too!]
* morphing “based on how readers respond"; “give and take” vs. “enforcing a structure”
There are other goals, that you lay out in "Welcome to Story Club":
a) Grow more alert to sentences-as-where-originality begins; b) Become more trusting and honoring of our micro-responses; c) Start seeing short stories everywhere and our life’s meanings essentialized in story forms; And… d) Form a tight and mutually supportive community.
–with the aspiration of doing this for the benefit of ourselves~others~world–
Expressed throughout here amongst the participants: a sense of delight, joy, generosity, excitement, possibility, renewed hope in humanity even and (I lost track of who exactly typed this, apologies!): "this constant Christmas feeling I’m getting from Story Club, created by your warmth and generosity, and the warmth of this community. Pretty special thing going on here."
SYNTHESIS: It feels to me that this space is some complex hybrid of a digital classroom, a social media community-on-purpose (without–hopefully!--hostility, with emotional investment and like-hearted-ness), and the (extra-heartfelt) Comments section of an extra-special blog. It seems to me, this is wanting/ trying to be, (as far as the interpersonal parts that are of both most aspiration and anxiety to me) ***a place of trust and connection, of learning-together and daring to… dream a bit, to take risks. ***
Keeping a space this new, this giant, this scattered... in which it feels okay to take risks is–No Small Ask!
QUESTIONS~SUGGESTIONS:
1) GROUP ENGAGMENT: To the degree this is like a giant (benevolent) fb group– (and they do exist, I’ve been in them!): I wonder if borrowing some of the better innovations of such spaces might be helpful? For instance: Group Agreements. Moderation Assistance. Administrative Help of various kinds.
(I hear that you’re not wanting to *enforce a structure* but--perhaps this might be done lightly, in response to an intuitive feel of the group as it forms and changes? Not heavy-handed moderation but... like a grad student assistant or two that help out sometimes?? )
a) Clear (and explicitly agreed-to) Group Agreements (for instance, around expressing one’s self kindly, not offering unasked-for advice, reading and even replying to 2 comments for every 1 comment you make) can be transformative in limiting the (so far very rare) negative kinds of engagement, and, protecting the warm, supportive energy in this space... (This space seems to have a clear energy but--I do think explicit group agreements--ideally more specific than "don't be mean"--*really* help things like this.)
b) Multiple Moderators/ Moderation Assistants are–I think, a life saver and a way for a group creator to not get burnt out. Not that we all don’t wish there weren’t four of YOU. It seems to make people’s day when you reply. I adore that commitment to prioritizing interaction & replying. But–I’ve never seen a space this giant with only one moderator. That’s a LOT of monitoring for one person. Impossible to see & synthesize everything.
Along those lines: I wonder if it might be helpful to have more people reading and replying? (Even if just in the, talk-once-respond-twice rule?) And doing other moderating sorts of things?
Mind you–beyond a bit of strategizing like this, I don’t think I could myself actively volunteer on a regular basis. But–from the start I’ve visualized this, and my own engagement here, as being as much like a *real* classroom as possible. And “after” class, hanging around, letting people know I heard and liked what they said. And when people have done that for me–even when they’re not you!--it makes me feel more real, visible here–and like I *actually* belong. Sharing and hearing nothing is confusing, and can feel like it’s a message of rejection (TLDR, you’re too weird) or non-belonging. Just a thought, to consider making prioritizing inter-group interaction (and creating some supports for this) a deliberate thing.
c) Another thing Administrative Helpers might do–Perhaps post (somewhere?) a list of FAQs with a twist: Things that are both immensely practical (for ex, details around how subscribing works you’ve answered in the comments) and also, writerly advice directly from you in response to highly specific questions. I imagine there’s a specialness to stumbling into such things by serendipity, but also, much could get lost and need being repeated. Especially as the posts and Comments grow. (And having the list might inspire revisits and ongoing convos--LIKE A REAL CLASS!!--In a group this large with so much digital and disjointed conversation, most will never even "hear" that amazing conversation.)
2) PODS: Self-organizing pods by location, but also, *Sensibility* in terms of the *kinds* of creative feedback people enjoy giving and receiving. (I already sense a HUGE spectrum of preferences around that, here.) Also, perhaps organizing by preferences like–Hoping to pair some of the reading with writing by non-whiteeuromales.
3) WILD IDEA: CRAZY suggestion but–maybe having one or two Coffee Hours? (Perhaps in the form of a zoom meet-up?) With you in attendance or not? Maybe to ask more directly how people are feeling, sensing into where people are and aren’t feeling invited-in? Gather other suggestions?
4) EH: A bold, perhaps impolite wondering: Might volunteers who contributed significant time receive a free subscription? Perhaps this might be a way of offering a sort of... work-study scholarship option? It’s awful to ask, it’s the ugly logic of capitalism, in which Time=Money.
5) PLEASE let me know: Who did the graphic design work for Story Club? It's so lovely and charming, and conveys so much of the desired feel, is so just-right. Is so much like the--illustrations on the books I loved as a child that paired perfectly with the stories.
(If I could afford it, they're the designer I'd want for my thing!)
6) Was this okay? Is this the kind of thing you want to hear about?
Hiya, George. Great photos. I say keep the ponytail and, if you do, you might also consider trading in your acoustic guitar for electric. Can you play the guitar with your teeth? I've heard all the cool writers are doing it.
Looking forward to digging into Hemingway this week. As ever, thank you for sharing your time and expertise.
Speaking of mansplaining: technically, Mr. Offerman is on YOUR left and Mr. Tweedy is on YOUR right. I say this not because I enjoy correcting celebrated, award-winning writers I love, but because my petty, jealous ass knows deep down that writing a comment here is by far the closest I will ever get to the indisputably best horseback ride ever. Seriously, that picture makes me like all three of you even more, which hardly seemed possible.
How do I buy a lifetime subscription I already want this to never ever ever end?
You are a good man, a wonderful writer. Bring on Hemingway!!
Hell of a tail, Saunders. Grow it to the knees.