MY HEART. Thank you both. I bubble over. I have been a published children's author for 36 years. ( Canadian
not in the US (: ) too bad for royalties but no matter I am now signing books for a third generation. This boogles the mind. I often think of how my life is so full of love and kind people because of the path I chose. When I went to grad school to study the literature I thought profoundly important there were still circles in academia that called kids lit-- kitty litter. Yet there have ever been the champions! E.b. White a hero ! A book can't be a book unless it's read and it takes a lot of people who care enough about children to put excellent books in their hands. And invite authors into schools etcetc. The teachers and librarians are the superheroes. The parents and grandparents too. In case I am sounding too fuzzy wuzzy here I am writing a novel with a childrens author/ storyteller as very flawed protagonist who is told it's a bunny eat bunny world. She says no way. She finds out a lot as she ages but is she is a child who lived undercover as an adult? I'm kidding. Maybe.
William Steig said children's literature is largely a literature of optimism. I think he is right but my hopeful ever after has changed..they lived after works too. So many exciting children's books. that is where I look for wisdom. Ever after is nice for the grown ups too. Especially those of us who know certain rabbitholes can be dangerous. The chain of book being in kids book world does make you see interconnectedness of being on a level and frequency I wish more of the world would spin on. I think we could change the world one children's story at a time. Story not book. The oral tradition and human voice have so much to do with why it is so powerful. The emotional connect so deep . If grown ups would only keep reading outloud to each other every night. (: I run a small seasonal book shop and I know I'll order your books for shelves next year. I BABBLE I do but thank you thank you both so much for this. This was serendipity. Needed. Sometimes things do come in a first burst but only once have I not revised. Today before reading this I found an ENTICING ending to a children's story I started over 20 years ago. Enticing ! It surprised me. THRILLING! That shiver of knowing. But still that wee voice : Who does that kind of thing ? I asked myself. . Spend years on such few lines. Then I came here. Answer : People who create to hold hope in the world of darkness by the very act of creation. They've met the beauty and the beast. And yet want to share a kind of ... joy? No small miracle me thinks. Creating magic and Wonder. Light. That is why I come here. This post is sooooo beautiful. . I am biased. I'll stop now. Heart Great Full. Now I mean. Now.
Sheree, Sooo many of favorite author/illustrators are Canadian! Isabelle Arsenault, Sydney Smith, Julie Morstad, Julie Flett, Jillian Tamaki, Kate Beaton, Jon Klassen... I could go on! There must be something in the water. Thanks for the kind words and wishing you all the best with your own project. My favorite thing is being surprised by my own work, it's the best feeling. So glad to hear you are in that space.
Sydney did three of my books when they were reprinted. On ( cough) 20 and 25th anniversaries. 66 comes fast. . Sydney is brilliant and I was beyond lucky. I knew he was destined for greatness. Seriously. The books rocked new life because of his art. Love him. All those others I know and books on my shelves. DON'T tell anyone but I never knew I'd discover putting good books IN little hands and big hands and waxing on about children's literature is addictive. Having a book shop on a dirt road is magicsl. . Plus we have donkeys. Open invitation to you. Thx for reply. I almost deleted it. I love open ended endings .. so the point of departure for the reader is an invitation to create their own world. Keep imagining. My father did exactly what George did with his girls night after night. The best thing .. if we didn't like his ending he let us make up another one. I think that's how I started . At 4. I could change the ending if I didn't like that one. Powers. Fire. Whoosh! !
Oh, I love the Sydney connection! He is brilliant. I loved his recent book, "Talk like a river", with Jordan Scott and am looking forward to their next collaboration.. coming soon I think!
"Literature of optimism" I love that. And I definitely agree that we grownups need that, too, sometimes. I feel like children's lit has been such a through-line in my life. First as a book-loving kid. Then as a speech pathologist working with young children (choosing books largely for engagement and language goals). Then, as a parent, coming to a new appreciation of authors I loved as a child (Dr. Seuss! Beverly Cleary! EB White!) and sharing and loving new books with my daughter. And now, loving "children's books" just for myself, unrelated to parenting and work (e.g., "The Tree in Me" by Corinna, "Flora and Ulysses," by Kate DiCamillo and, recently, "The Eyes and the Impossible" by Dave Eggers, and clearly I need to pick up the "Gappers of Frip"). I think we all still carry inside us the child we used to be. And good children's literature is for us all.
Oh yes— I love Flora and Ulysses (and everything Kate does) and just read The Eyes and the Impossible, and really enjoyed it. I was surprised how much, actually. It has some interesting parallels to Fox 8 as well!
Like Jeremy below - this book was the book that brought all your other work to me. My daughters who were really young at the time - just 2 and 4 - saw the book on a bookshelf of the now long-gone Borders in Philadelphia. I thought it was going to be too long for them, but they insisted, we bought it, went right home and sat on the couch and I read it to them. Well, the 2 year old did get up and wander around, but my four year old sat and listened to the end. Then she drew some gappers which we put on the fridge (wish I still had that drawing, but alas...). They asked for it again and again throughout the years, and we got so chunks were memorized. When they learned to read, I often found it splayed open on a bedside table. Now my girls are 24 and 26 and they remember your book clear as day. Both my girls are deep readers - but my younger daughter has read your short story collections as well as Lincoln in The Bardo - and loved them both. But The Very Persistent Gappers of Frip remains to this day as her favorite in the Saunders oeuvre.
Although I have had a couple of ideas for children's book and began one many years ago I still might tackle, I've never finished one. But I have told a lot of stories to children, most of them not my own, and only some with happy endings.
Long ago, I worked at the Brooklyn Museum in a drop-in art program for kids. I would read the folktales and myths that related to various parts of the collection -- Chinese stories, Indian stories, stories from different African and South American countries, mostly -- and take the kids to those exhibits, where I'd tell a couple of stories and then guide them through an art-making project. The combination of storytelling and artmaking a great way for the kids not only to learn something about other cultures, but also their connection with people often quite different from themselves.
Fifteen years later, I was visiting one of my brothers in Luxemburg, He had two young kids, five and seven. Somehow, on that visit, I became the person who told them bedtime stories.
I started with the stories I had learned at my Brooklyn Museum job. They were never satisfied with just one, so in a few days I had exhausted my supply of stories I still remembered and started drawing on all sorts of stories. When I was adapting Star Trek and Twilight episodes, I decided I'd better renew my supply. The next day, I bought a complete collection of Grimms' fairy tales. I'd read a few after the kids went to sleep and tell them the next day.
Before I left for home, I gave the book to my niece, who of the two was the more interested, though my intention was that she share it with her younger brother. Twenty-nine years later, she's a lawyer and still has the book. She and a friend, also a lawyer, have started a podcast where they treat the stories as crimes to be solved and play detectives talking over the case.
Stories we tell children are like seeds we plant and we never know what will eventually bloom.
That is amazing. And seeds. Exactly. Seeds. I would really be interested to listen to that podcast. I love a twisty tale and mystery. And human voices. If you have a link I wonder if you might share.
Oh my goodness, I'm such a huge Corinna Luyken fan! I really appreciate all of these stories of how stories for kids happened.
One thing I love as someone who writes but doesn't illustrate is the ability to write those paths from the Tove Jansson quote, but then hand them to the illustrator, and they can expand the path or, often the illustrations will cause that path to fork in a way I hadn't at all anticipated. There are so many parts of the story that happen in the illustration, and it's always so incredibly cool to finish writing the words and then a year later I find out what else is happening in the story. (I do have trouble with endings also, and have joked that I'll put "[art note: illustrator draws brilliant ending]" and hope that flies. Sometimes it's good enough to let that thought sit at the end of the manuscript for a while, and then I write what I think would make a cool ending to illustrate.)
Julie! How wonderful to see you here. This made me laugh... because I do the same thing with the word part of my stories [art note: future self will draw brilliant ending and tie up all loose ends]. With my current project I was REALLY hoping my illustrator self would solve all the problems. Fortunately, my very smart, very patient editor would, from time to time, suggest that perhaps the words could do more heavy lifting. It turns out she was probably right, but having that art note/place holder does take some stress off of figuring out the ending immediately!
It's a terrifying and also extremely fun part of this -- should the words do the heavy lifting, or the illustrations? There is a thing where I've got the story down and I can start to go through and really consider what needs to be in there, and what to delete and let it show up however it will in the illustrations. It feels like releasing the birds of the story and waiting to see what they come back with.
Also I'm excited about whatever it is you're working on, because it sounds like a leveling up, and that's always so inspiring to read in final book form.
Fabulous! And thanks for introducing me to Corrina Luyken. The magic of StoryClub strikes again, I had just yesterday turned over a very short children's story, with some fun and some fears, to an illustrator!
That is such a nerve wracking part of the process for writers, I know! It's hard to release your baby into someone else's hands. But picture books are truly a collaborative art form— that's what creates the magic. One of my favorite picture book writers working today, Mac Barnett, describes the job of the picture book writer as "the art of finishing an unfinished thing." Not easy! Not sure if I can put a link in the comments here to an interview with him, but I'll try.
Love the interview! Yes, I'm scared to see what the illustrator (and her wonderful artist daughter, of 8!) will make of my odd book! But also excited. It's a dark book, but with a little winking light at the end.
🦊8 was my entry to your work, and I immediately shared it with all the childlike grownup people in my life, it never ceases to inspire them to be better ‘umans. I was unaware of this children’s book, but look forward to reading it with the little ones soon, thanks for the backstory.
Leaving an ending so that it is at least a little bit open-ended is a beautiful way of thinking about it. An opening for mystery, for surprise. A bit of space for that soul-full part of us to move around in.
I love that Tove Jansson quote — and it seems applicable beyond children's literature... “Every [story] should have a path in it where the writer stops and the [reader] goes on." Underscores the conversational element of writing (and reading).
This post just makes my heart happy. It's just lovely to read the words of two people who have put such care into writing for children. I haven't read "Gappers of Frith," but sounds like I should! And I'm a big fan of "The Tree in Me" . . . just brought it in from my car, where I had placed it for my nephew to look at while we were driving. The illustrations are just so gorgeous. A heart-expanding book, and not just for littles.
Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion with Corinna on endings and hope. I asked you a similar question at the National book festival about your thoughts on the idea of writers being duty bound to provide hope. I have been thinking about what you said about how sometimes you have to look the wolf in the eye (I hope I am quoting you correctly). Thank you for discussing this further!
I loved what both you and Corrina said about the importance of writing about the darkness in the world and then deciding at what point in the balance of negative and positive the story feels complete or necessary or yields the maximum meaning. I might have a tendency to want to end with hope because of an internal unwanted tendency to be negative as well as my background as a social worker (and Buddhist) who tries to show kids and adults that they have the internal resources they need to “fight back” or surrender or use whatever resource or skill might be called for in the moment. But I know that this might not be the most effective way to tell a story or reach some people. So that is what I am learning from you and Story Club.
I had asked Kate DiCamillo one time about how I could tell a child about a specific terrible thing that happened in the world. She said I could turn it into a story. And it sounds like we are saying that if I wrote about that terrible thing in a story for kids, I would need to end with hope. I wonder if adults also need some glimmer of hope and is a story really true if there is no hope? Or do we sometimes just have to look the wolf in the eye?
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts about this with us!
The way I feel now is that if a story ends truthfully - if it honors all that it's said and shown - then that is hopeful. We derive hope from a human being looking at things honestly. I was thinking about that kids' book "The Hundred Dresses" by Eleanor Estes - as I recall, it wasn't a "happy" ending but it was a perfect ending - it took everything that had come before into account and felt true to life.
Oh yes, "The Hundred Dresses" is a great example of this — hope in that story is tangled up in the the pain we feel when we get to the ending. It is SO powerful, in large part because hope isn’t the reader’s immediate response. Instead, hope is obscured by the surprise and regret of the ending. (What an ending!)
Which feels honest, true, and… brave.
With Estes’ story, the hope I feel as a reader is tied to my sense that the main character has learned something— that a small, but significant, internal transformation has taken place. And that the world might be a better place going forward because of it.
And is there anything more hopeful than that—the acknowledgment of suffering— and then, the yearning, in the face of it, to learn and grow and change?
i keep thinking and thinking about this sentence and wondering if it is true: "We derive hope from a human being looking at things honestly." I keep rolling that one over and over inside my head. A person being honest, looking at things honestly, stating their truth, as painful as it may be to themselves or to another--does that bring hope to us? I just don't know. The painful truth--is that a hopeful thing? I suppose it's possible to think that hope MAY come after an honest assessment--even a painful one. If a person says, look, this is over, I'm done, that sounds pretty darn hopeless about whatever situation is over and done with. But hope may come from the fact that a person then has to keep going, somehow. The honesty itself may not be hopeful--we do not find hope in the honesty. We find hope in the aftermath of that honesty (or we don't--and then live with the consequences). Anyway, I'm still thinking about it. A writer writing their truth--that does seem, on the surface, a hopeful light in the world.
This sounds true from my experience. I’m so glad Kate recommended you after she told me that I could tell kids about darkness by turning it into a story. I love knowing that there are writers like you that I can trust who are doing this essential work in the world. Now I have lots of kids books that I’m looking forward to reading so I can see how they (and you) have done that. Thank you!
Loved this one! And here's something else I love: When Maurice Sendak was asked (probably for the millionth time) for advice about writing for children, he responded, "I don't write for children, I write as a child." Whoa! It's all about getting back to that place inside you that still sees and feels the world that way. It works for YA novels, which I write--you have to be able to be a teenager, thinking, writing. @BookPilgrim
Yes🌷 Ty for mentioning Sendak. There's a great documentary on him & his process. Tell Them Anything You Want by Spike Jonez. The title comes from a quote regarding what to tell children of Sendak's "Tell them anything you want, but always tell them the truth."
So do I. No matter how horrible/dire. Always tell the truth. Liars and cheapskates are top my list of detest. I adore Sendak💞 Esp. Where the Wild Things Are.
Same here. When he made the comment about writing as a child, he talked about how the Wild Things in the book looked like his Russian uncles, who scared him when he was little.
I was so moved when he talked about losing his childhood friend who ran into the street after a ball & died in front of him. 💙 I was a "wild thing" growing up (and well into early adulthood) so WTWTA made perfect sense to me. I have a stuffy of Max in his costume. He spends his time with my other stuffed animals. Lots of rabbits, a cicada, a wild thing with blue hair my daughter made, and one of my favs: a bunny she needled felted using my baby wool scarf I'd accidentally shrunken with cleaning. 🕶 We're never too old for stuffies.
I enjoyed your comments/insights & your marvelous illustrations. Will get one of your books and show it to my daughter who's a brilliant (I don't use the word loosely) illustrator herself. 🌷
Travelled me back down the vista of time. To recollecting the way when - reading and voicing stories to my son when he was young - I sometimes strayed spontaneously off-piste when he was at least a little familiar with a story. This was as a kind of litmus to tell me if was he off to the Land of Nod or just taking pause before exploding his eye-shutters open and picking-up the at the turn of a page or on hearing whatever changed words I was weaving into the story 🙄... who?... where?... what? ... when?... why?
One way the habit of reading aloud cashed out came years later when he told me, aged 15-16, that he'd aced an Examination because he remembered the rhythm of a poem - from an illustrated (line drawn monochrome, nothing sumptuously technicolour) paperback collection entitled 'Song of the City' - that I'd regularly rapped out to him ten years or more previously. It wasn't that he'd memorised the words of the poem so much as he had internalised the rhythm and imagery of the poem and then underpinned the piece on the topic he was required to write by using these to frame his response. My son's in his 40s now and maybe its just coincidence, has made his career in theatre and theatre education.
Now, not just on the back of this Story Club gem but certainly boosted by it, here's me in my green age finding myself reengaging with the potential of Illustrated Story Books not just as a delighted reader but just maybe as a book maker 😲
Thinking about the Julia Donaldson / Axel Schaeffer creative masterpiece 'The Gruffalo' I've long thought that it is the story which is at least 51 per cent of the quotient of creativity that sparks the start of the story and shapes it. Reading Corinna's take on making of 'The Book of Mistakes' et al and George's reflections on how 'The Very Persuasive Gappers of Frith' came to evolve, slowly but ever progressively, from oral-off-the-cuff-story to published-with-words-and-illustrations-story has opened my 👀 more than just a bit wider on the world of ✍ & 🖼 = 📔
Sincere thanks to Corinna, other contributing Writer / Illustrators and George 🙏
Creating stories for your kids (nightly) has to be one of the greatest exercises in story writing. I am not a writer, but at some point my wife and I starting telling our kids stories at bedtime (after reading at least 3 books on the couch) and it has become the cornerstone of our bedtime routine. The stories always involve a friendly Penguin named Prosciutto, thus christened "Prosciutto Stories" by the kids. A child's honesty is a great (sometimes brutal) sounding board for new ideas.
Loved this. Thank you, George! Thank you, Corinna! Such wonderful ideas to think about—and endings. Great help. But also, how the imagination can soar and at the same time allow for such juiciness and fun in stories for kids. I’ve never written for children, but you both make it sound like a possibility for those of us who want to do it.
My first memory of a picture book was from watching Captain Kangaroo. I couldn’t have been more than 3 or 4, and he read The Story of Ping, a duckling on the Yangtze River. I now own a copy I’ve kept though my sons are grown. My family (there were 8 of us children and few extras) didn’t own many books so Ping really captured my attention and sent me off to the library. Another book I remember is The 100 Dresses by Eleanor Estes. When I had children I bought or read every picture book I could get my hands on, many from childhood. Blueberries For Sal by Robert McCloskey, the Frances books by Russell Hoban, there are too many to recount here. and more modern ones my sons liked. Richard Scarry. A funny mother in law gave us the George and Martha books by James Marshall. I always loved The Stupids Step Out in which Grandpa answers the door and asks who his grandchildren are.
I wrote a picture book and tried to publish it back in the early 90’s about an agoraphobic cat living in the city based on Chicago. It’s still a dream of mine to see it published though much is already dated. Barron’s considered and then rejected. It’s what I name my website after, Shug the Scaredy Cat. Thank you for telling me about these authors. I will check them out!
MY HEART. Thank you both. I bubble over. I have been a published children's author for 36 years. ( Canadian
not in the US (: ) too bad for royalties but no matter I am now signing books for a third generation. This boogles the mind. I often think of how my life is so full of love and kind people because of the path I chose. When I went to grad school to study the literature I thought profoundly important there were still circles in academia that called kids lit-- kitty litter. Yet there have ever been the champions! E.b. White a hero ! A book can't be a book unless it's read and it takes a lot of people who care enough about children to put excellent books in their hands. And invite authors into schools etcetc. The teachers and librarians are the superheroes. The parents and grandparents too. In case I am sounding too fuzzy wuzzy here I am writing a novel with a childrens author/ storyteller as very flawed protagonist who is told it's a bunny eat bunny world. She says no way. She finds out a lot as she ages but is she is a child who lived undercover as an adult? I'm kidding. Maybe.
William Steig said children's literature is largely a literature of optimism. I think he is right but my hopeful ever after has changed..they lived after works too. So many exciting children's books. that is where I look for wisdom. Ever after is nice for the grown ups too. Especially those of us who know certain rabbitholes can be dangerous. The chain of book being in kids book world does make you see interconnectedness of being on a level and frequency I wish more of the world would spin on. I think we could change the world one children's story at a time. Story not book. The oral tradition and human voice have so much to do with why it is so powerful. The emotional connect so deep . If grown ups would only keep reading outloud to each other every night. (: I run a small seasonal book shop and I know I'll order your books for shelves next year. I BABBLE I do but thank you thank you both so much for this. This was serendipity. Needed. Sometimes things do come in a first burst but only once have I not revised. Today before reading this I found an ENTICING ending to a children's story I started over 20 years ago. Enticing ! It surprised me. THRILLING! That shiver of knowing. But still that wee voice : Who does that kind of thing ? I asked myself. . Spend years on such few lines. Then I came here. Answer : People who create to hold hope in the world of darkness by the very act of creation. They've met the beauty and the beast. And yet want to share a kind of ... joy? No small miracle me thinks. Creating magic and Wonder. Light. That is why I come here. This post is sooooo beautiful. . I am biased. I'll stop now. Heart Great Full. Now I mean. Now.
Sheree, sounds like you earned that burst of your "ENTICING" ending by way of many years of being dedicated to your craft, i.e., you earned it. :)
Sheree, Sooo many of favorite author/illustrators are Canadian! Isabelle Arsenault, Sydney Smith, Julie Morstad, Julie Flett, Jillian Tamaki, Kate Beaton, Jon Klassen... I could go on! There must be something in the water. Thanks for the kind words and wishing you all the best with your own project. My favorite thing is being surprised by my own work, it's the best feeling. So glad to hear you are in that space.
Sydney did three of my books when they were reprinted. On ( cough) 20 and 25th anniversaries. 66 comes fast. . Sydney is brilliant and I was beyond lucky. I knew he was destined for greatness. Seriously. The books rocked new life because of his art. Love him. All those others I know and books on my shelves. DON'T tell anyone but I never knew I'd discover putting good books IN little hands and big hands and waxing on about children's literature is addictive. Having a book shop on a dirt road is magicsl. . Plus we have donkeys. Open invitation to you. Thx for reply. I almost deleted it. I love open ended endings .. so the point of departure for the reader is an invitation to create their own world. Keep imagining. My father did exactly what George did with his girls night after night. The best thing .. if we didn't like his ending he let us make up another one. I think that's how I started . At 4. I could change the ending if I didn't like that one. Powers. Fire. Whoosh! !
Oh, I love the Sydney connection! He is brilliant. I loved his recent book, "Talk like a river", with Jordan Scott and am looking forward to their next collaboration.. coming soon I think!
"Literature of optimism" I love that. And I definitely agree that we grownups need that, too, sometimes. I feel like children's lit has been such a through-line in my life. First as a book-loving kid. Then as a speech pathologist working with young children (choosing books largely for engagement and language goals). Then, as a parent, coming to a new appreciation of authors I loved as a child (Dr. Seuss! Beverly Cleary! EB White!) and sharing and loving new books with my daughter. And now, loving "children's books" just for myself, unrelated to parenting and work (e.g., "The Tree in Me" by Corinna, "Flora and Ulysses," by Kate DiCamillo and, recently, "The Eyes and the Impossible" by Dave Eggers, and clearly I need to pick up the "Gappers of Frip"). I think we all still carry inside us the child we used to be. And good children's literature is for us all.
Oh yes— I love Flora and Ulysses (and everything Kate does) and just read The Eyes and the Impossible, and really enjoyed it. I was surprised how much, actually. It has some interesting parallels to Fox 8 as well!
Sheree, you are so brilliant!
Anne! I would never have known about story club if not for brilliant you telling me about it. Thank you as ever dear FRIEND.
Like Jeremy below - this book was the book that brought all your other work to me. My daughters who were really young at the time - just 2 and 4 - saw the book on a bookshelf of the now long-gone Borders in Philadelphia. I thought it was going to be too long for them, but they insisted, we bought it, went right home and sat on the couch and I read it to them. Well, the 2 year old did get up and wander around, but my four year old sat and listened to the end. Then she drew some gappers which we put on the fridge (wish I still had that drawing, but alas...). They asked for it again and again throughout the years, and we got so chunks were memorized. When they learned to read, I often found it splayed open on a bedside table. Now my girls are 24 and 26 and they remember your book clear as day. Both my girls are deep readers - but my younger daughter has read your short story collections as well as Lincoln in The Bardo - and loved them both. But The Very Persistent Gappers of Frip remains to this day as her favorite in the Saunders oeuvre.
I love this so much. I can't even tell you. And your youngest daughter has exceptional taste!
I agree! She still loves children’s books - as do I - forwarded her your website because I know she’ll love your illustrations and stories
Although I have had a couple of ideas for children's book and began one many years ago I still might tackle, I've never finished one. But I have told a lot of stories to children, most of them not my own, and only some with happy endings.
Long ago, I worked at the Brooklyn Museum in a drop-in art program for kids. I would read the folktales and myths that related to various parts of the collection -- Chinese stories, Indian stories, stories from different African and South American countries, mostly -- and take the kids to those exhibits, where I'd tell a couple of stories and then guide them through an art-making project. The combination of storytelling and artmaking a great way for the kids not only to learn something about other cultures, but also their connection with people often quite different from themselves.
Fifteen years later, I was visiting one of my brothers in Luxemburg, He had two young kids, five and seven. Somehow, on that visit, I became the person who told them bedtime stories.
I started with the stories I had learned at my Brooklyn Museum job. They were never satisfied with just one, so in a few days I had exhausted my supply of stories I still remembered and started drawing on all sorts of stories. When I was adapting Star Trek and Twilight episodes, I decided I'd better renew my supply. The next day, I bought a complete collection of Grimms' fairy tales. I'd read a few after the kids went to sleep and tell them the next day.
Before I left for home, I gave the book to my niece, who of the two was the more interested, though my intention was that she share it with her younger brother. Twenty-nine years later, she's a lawyer and still has the book. She and a friend, also a lawyer, have started a podcast where they treat the stories as crimes to be solved and play detectives talking over the case.
Stories we tell children are like seeds we plant and we never know what will eventually bloom.
This is a lovely story. Thank you for sharing!
That is amazing. And seeds. Exactly. Seeds. I would really be interested to listen to that podcast. I love a twisty tale and mystery. And human voices. If you have a link I wonder if you might share.
Oh my goodness, I'm such a huge Corinna Luyken fan! I really appreciate all of these stories of how stories for kids happened.
One thing I love as someone who writes but doesn't illustrate is the ability to write those paths from the Tove Jansson quote, but then hand them to the illustrator, and they can expand the path or, often the illustrations will cause that path to fork in a way I hadn't at all anticipated. There are so many parts of the story that happen in the illustration, and it's always so incredibly cool to finish writing the words and then a year later I find out what else is happening in the story. (I do have trouble with endings also, and have joked that I'll put "[art note: illustrator draws brilliant ending]" and hope that flies. Sometimes it's good enough to let that thought sit at the end of the manuscript for a while, and then I write what I think would make a cool ending to illustrate.)
I love Tove Jansson!
Julie! How wonderful to see you here. This made me laugh... because I do the same thing with the word part of my stories [art note: future self will draw brilliant ending and tie up all loose ends]. With my current project I was REALLY hoping my illustrator self would solve all the problems. Fortunately, my very smart, very patient editor would, from time to time, suggest that perhaps the words could do more heavy lifting. It turns out she was probably right, but having that art note/place holder does take some stress off of figuring out the ending immediately!
Corinna! Hi!
It's a terrifying and also extremely fun part of this -- should the words do the heavy lifting, or the illustrations? There is a thing where I've got the story down and I can start to go through and really consider what needs to be in there, and what to delete and let it show up however it will in the illustrations. It feels like releasing the birds of the story and waiting to see what they come back with.
Also I'm excited about whatever it is you're working on, because it sounds like a leveling up, and that's always so inspiring to read in final book form.
Fabulous! And thanks for introducing me to Corrina Luyken. The magic of StoryClub strikes again, I had just yesterday turned over a very short children's story, with some fun and some fears, to an illustrator!
That is such a nerve wracking part of the process for writers, I know! It's hard to release your baby into someone else's hands. But picture books are truly a collaborative art form— that's what creates the magic. One of my favorite picture book writers working today, Mac Barnett, describes the job of the picture book writer as "the art of finishing an unfinished thing." Not easy! Not sure if I can put a link in the comments here to an interview with him, but I'll try.
https://www.artofthepicturebook.com/-check-in-with/2020/6/5/adam-rex-and-mac-barnett-interview
Love the interview! Yes, I'm scared to see what the illustrator (and her wonderful artist daughter, of 8!) will make of my odd book! But also excited. It's a dark book, but with a little winking light at the end.
And I can see it won't be a book until I get the vision of these two readers.
🦊8 was my entry to your work, and I immediately shared it with all the childlike grownup people in my life, it never ceases to inspire them to be better ‘umans. I was unaware of this children’s book, but look forward to reading it with the little ones soon, thanks for the backstory.
Love this.
This post is, for me, all about ways of opening, to the world and everything in it. Eye opening, soul opening. Thank you both so much!
Leaving an ending so that it is at least a little bit open-ended is a beautiful way of thinking about it. An opening for mystery, for surprise. A bit of space for that soul-full part of us to move around in.
I love that Tove Jansson quote — and it seems applicable beyond children's literature... “Every [story] should have a path in it where the writer stops and the [reader] goes on." Underscores the conversational element of writing (and reading).
This post just makes my heart happy. It's just lovely to read the words of two people who have put such care into writing for children. I haven't read "Gappers of Frith," but sounds like I should! And I'm a big fan of "The Tree in Me" . . . just brought it in from my car, where I had placed it for my nephew to look at while we were driving. The illustrations are just so gorgeous. A heart-expanding book, and not just for littles.
Thank you Melissa! Definitely check out GAPPERS... I may be biased, but I think it's a gem.
I will definitely check it out. (And FRIP! FRIP! Don't know why I changed it to "Frith" haha)
Dear George,
Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion with Corinna on endings and hope. I asked you a similar question at the National book festival about your thoughts on the idea of writers being duty bound to provide hope. I have been thinking about what you said about how sometimes you have to look the wolf in the eye (I hope I am quoting you correctly). Thank you for discussing this further!
I loved what both you and Corrina said about the importance of writing about the darkness in the world and then deciding at what point in the balance of negative and positive the story feels complete or necessary or yields the maximum meaning. I might have a tendency to want to end with hope because of an internal unwanted tendency to be negative as well as my background as a social worker (and Buddhist) who tries to show kids and adults that they have the internal resources they need to “fight back” or surrender or use whatever resource or skill might be called for in the moment. But I know that this might not be the most effective way to tell a story or reach some people. So that is what I am learning from you and Story Club.
I had asked Kate DiCamillo one time about how I could tell a child about a specific terrible thing that happened in the world. She said I could turn it into a story. And it sounds like we are saying that if I wrote about that terrible thing in a story for kids, I would need to end with hope. I wonder if adults also need some glimmer of hope and is a story really true if there is no hope? Or do we sometimes just have to look the wolf in the eye?
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts about this with us!
Sincerely,
Kirstin
The way I feel now is that if a story ends truthfully - if it honors all that it's said and shown - then that is hopeful. We derive hope from a human being looking at things honestly. I was thinking about that kids' book "The Hundred Dresses" by Eleanor Estes - as I recall, it wasn't a "happy" ending but it was a perfect ending - it took everything that had come before into account and felt true to life.
Oh yes, "The Hundred Dresses" is a great example of this — hope in that story is tangled up in the the pain we feel when we get to the ending. It is SO powerful, in large part because hope isn’t the reader’s immediate response. Instead, hope is obscured by the surprise and regret of the ending. (What an ending!)
Which feels honest, true, and… brave.
With Estes’ story, the hope I feel as a reader is tied to my sense that the main character has learned something— that a small, but significant, internal transformation has taken place. And that the world might be a better place going forward because of it.
And is there anything more hopeful than that—the acknowledgment of suffering— and then, the yearning, in the face of it, to learn and grow and change?
i keep thinking and thinking about this sentence and wondering if it is true: "We derive hope from a human being looking at things honestly." I keep rolling that one over and over inside my head. A person being honest, looking at things honestly, stating their truth, as painful as it may be to themselves or to another--does that bring hope to us? I just don't know. The painful truth--is that a hopeful thing? I suppose it's possible to think that hope MAY come after an honest assessment--even a painful one. If a person says, look, this is over, I'm done, that sounds pretty darn hopeless about whatever situation is over and done with. But hope may come from the fact that a person then has to keep going, somehow. The honesty itself may not be hopeful--we do not find hope in the honesty. We find hope in the aftermath of that honesty (or we don't--and then live with the consequences). Anyway, I'm still thinking about it. A writer writing their truth--that does seem, on the surface, a hopeful light in the world.
This sounds true from my experience. I’m so glad Kate recommended you after she told me that I could tell kids about darkness by turning it into a story. I love knowing that there are writers like you that I can trust who are doing this essential work in the world. Now I have lots of kids books that I’m looking forward to reading so I can see how they (and you) have done that. Thank you!
Loved this one! And here's something else I love: When Maurice Sendak was asked (probably for the millionth time) for advice about writing for children, he responded, "I don't write for children, I write as a child." Whoa! It's all about getting back to that place inside you that still sees and feels the world that way. It works for YA novels, which I write--you have to be able to be a teenager, thinking, writing. @BookPilgrim
Yes🌷 Ty for mentioning Sendak. There's a great documentary on him & his process. Tell Them Anything You Want by Spike Jonez. The title comes from a quote regarding what to tell children of Sendak's "Tell them anything you want, but always tell them the truth."
He always told the truth.
So do I. No matter how horrible/dire. Always tell the truth. Liars and cheapskates are top my list of detest. I adore Sendak💞 Esp. Where the Wild Things Are.
Same here. When he made the comment about writing as a child, he talked about how the Wild Things in the book looked like his Russian uncles, who scared him when he was little.
I was so moved when he talked about losing his childhood friend who ran into the street after a ball & died in front of him. 💙 I was a "wild thing" growing up (and well into early adulthood) so WTWTA made perfect sense to me. I have a stuffy of Max in his costume. He spends his time with my other stuffed animals. Lots of rabbits, a cicada, a wild thing with blue hair my daughter made, and one of my favs: a bunny she needled felted using my baby wool scarf I'd accidentally shrunken with cleaning. 🕶 We're never too old for stuffies.
Yes.
I enjoyed your comments/insights & your marvelous illustrations. Will get one of your books and show it to my daughter who's a brilliant (I don't use the word loosely) illustrator herself. 🌷
Thank you, Lucinda.
Yes! Thank you for this. I have not seen it.
I love his words about his process. A North star for many .
We are all capable, if the tree of love is spread over each generation of children^^ So says da ^..^
Marvellous newsletter and no mistake about it.
Travelled me back down the vista of time. To recollecting the way when - reading and voicing stories to my son when he was young - I sometimes strayed spontaneously off-piste when he was at least a little familiar with a story. This was as a kind of litmus to tell me if was he off to the Land of Nod or just taking pause before exploding his eye-shutters open and picking-up the at the turn of a page or on hearing whatever changed words I was weaving into the story 🙄... who?... where?... what? ... when?... why?
One way the habit of reading aloud cashed out came years later when he told me, aged 15-16, that he'd aced an Examination because he remembered the rhythm of a poem - from an illustrated (line drawn monochrome, nothing sumptuously technicolour) paperback collection entitled 'Song of the City' - that I'd regularly rapped out to him ten years or more previously. It wasn't that he'd memorised the words of the poem so much as he had internalised the rhythm and imagery of the poem and then underpinned the piece on the topic he was required to write by using these to frame his response. My son's in his 40s now and maybe its just coincidence, has made his career in theatre and theatre education.
Now, not just on the back of this Story Club gem but certainly boosted by it, here's me in my green age finding myself reengaging with the potential of Illustrated Story Books not just as a delighted reader but just maybe as a book maker 😲
Thinking about the Julia Donaldson / Axel Schaeffer creative masterpiece 'The Gruffalo' I've long thought that it is the story which is at least 51 per cent of the quotient of creativity that sparks the start of the story and shapes it. Reading Corinna's take on making of 'The Book of Mistakes' et al and George's reflections on how 'The Very Persuasive Gappers of Frith' came to evolve, slowly but ever progressively, from oral-off-the-cuff-story to published-with-words-and-illustrations-story has opened my 👀 more than just a bit wider on the world of ✍ & 🖼 = 📔
Sincere thanks to Corinna, other contributing Writer / Illustrators and George 🙏
Creating stories for your kids (nightly) has to be one of the greatest exercises in story writing. I am not a writer, but at some point my wife and I starting telling our kids stories at bedtime (after reading at least 3 books on the couch) and it has become the cornerstone of our bedtime routine. The stories always involve a friendly Penguin named Prosciutto, thus christened "Prosciutto Stories" by the kids. A child's honesty is a great (sometimes brutal) sounding board for new ideas.
Loved this. Thank you, George! Thank you, Corinna! Such wonderful ideas to think about—and endings. Great help. But also, how the imagination can soar and at the same time allow for such juiciness and fun in stories for kids. I’ve never written for children, but you both make it sound like a possibility for those of us who want to do it.
My first memory of a picture book was from watching Captain Kangaroo. I couldn’t have been more than 3 or 4, and he read The Story of Ping, a duckling on the Yangtze River. I now own a copy I’ve kept though my sons are grown. My family (there were 8 of us children and few extras) didn’t own many books so Ping really captured my attention and sent me off to the library. Another book I remember is The 100 Dresses by Eleanor Estes. When I had children I bought or read every picture book I could get my hands on, many from childhood. Blueberries For Sal by Robert McCloskey, the Frances books by Russell Hoban, there are too many to recount here. and more modern ones my sons liked. Richard Scarry. A funny mother in law gave us the George and Martha books by James Marshall. I always loved The Stupids Step Out in which Grandpa answers the door and asks who his grandchildren are.
I wrote a picture book and tried to publish it back in the early 90’s about an agoraphobic cat living in the city based on Chicago. It’s still a dream of mine to see it published though much is already dated. Barron’s considered and then rejected. It’s what I name my website after, Shug the Scaredy Cat. Thank you for telling me about these authors. I will check them out!