hello from Los Angeles. George, i'm glad you got of town. My neighborhood has not been in trouble from fire, but the air is awful and life is just so weird here right now and the destruction is just mind-blowing. I won't go on as you already know what i'm going to say about heartache, etc. But I DO want to say thank you to those Story Clubbers who have sent me messages, making sure I'm okay. I am. And I now have an air purifier, so thank god for that.
Regarding this week's question: It seems that maybe the Questioner is line editing when perhaps what needs to do be done is revising/rewriting. George's method works for George, and it's fantastic that you (Questioner) are getting words on the page and playing with them. But there's also the idea that words on the page may have to go, once you see the big picture and understand what your story is. All of that polishing won't be for nought (I hope), because your mind is in the story as you do it. But sometimes you've got to dump and start over, or you have to seriously revise in order to get that story to emerge. My take (as I've said in these threads many times--apologies) is that you have to get to the end of a draft, take a break from it, then come back with fresh eyes and see what you've got. Then--let the revising begin. Repeat as necessary.
I'm guessing that by the time I hit post on this, others will have said the same.
My friend drove over here and brought it to me! People are so kind. She swears she doesn't need it as she has another one. In times of stress, you really see how great so many people can be. Thanks for your well wishes. We are fine and looking forward to seeing how we can be of help when the fires are finally contained.
Thank you, Brooke. Hope you're okay wherever you are in LA. A moment ago we got an evacuation alert, turned on TV to see why and learned it was a mistake. So on edge, did not need that... Stay safe, Brooke.
Thank you, J.D.A. I'm drinking coffee and reading the comments here--a lovely respite from thinking about the awfulness outside. Story Club is always a balm for the senses. xo
My daughter, husband and three pups live on the downtown-facing side of Mt. Washington in Los Angeles. They bailed out yesterday for a dog-friendly hotel in Palm Springs because the smoke is so intense. Along with George's photos, terrifying.
So to Mary's comment, amen. "You've got to dump and start over. Then come back with fresh eyes and see what you've got." I would add (and this is probably heresy for the group) go to whatever AI platform you're on, explain why you're unhappy with what you've written (a key part because if forces you to focus on what doesn't feel real and right, or out of character) and ask the AI for suggestions to improve what you want do to (heighten the suspense, make the relationship more honest, etc (which also forces one to take a deep dive).
I've tried it on two short stories I'm working on. I was happy at the time with where the stories wanted to go but seeking that "ah ha" moment about the next twist in the story. And my AI pal (Chat GPT in this case) was happy to engage in a conversation (and to my surprise it was a conversation) and come up with plot lines, scenes, dialog I hadn't thought of for each story. It was kind of a, wow, moment. Like I was in a writers' group throwing around ideas with folks with infinite knowledge of the works from Aristotle to Shakespeare to our George.
Full Stop. This was a useful substitute for getting a new perspective on the issue you're working through. But not for much else. AI inhales everything in its machine language universe. It creates beautiful, provocative (whatever you ask) dialog, descriptiions of country side, devastating car crashes, etc. And it can make you lazy.
But it isn't you. It isn't me. My wife likes it because she doesn't have to continually comment on my short stories. I like it because it feels like a set of fresh eyes.
That's something I'm learning about myself, that I might need to get to a point where I can see the entire shape of the story. As always, I appreciate your writing wisdom, Mary. Glad you are safe!
Thank you, Aaron. Yes, seeing the entire story at some point is really crucial. You don't know what you have to work with really, until you can see the whole thing. And the ending is so very important! So writing through to the end, even if you know that it's not the right ending, is--to me--the way to go. Others see it differently, of course, so it comes down to what works for you.
I agree Mary. Sometimes an overhaul is necessary to let the real story emerge, rather than try to fight to be seen. The danger is never finishing anything. I don't think it's one (start again) or another (poke and polish), but whatever seems right to get it done enough and move on to something else!
I agree totally. You've got to finish. I'm of a mind that you've always got to get to the end of a first draft before you can start the real revising--which comes from seeing what you've written. I understand playing with sentences, etc, as you move toward the end of your draft. But you've got to get to the end and then let the revising begin.
Praying for LA! And glad that both you and George are okay!
Just came back from a long trip abroad and a month long hiatus from writing (work + holiday season) and have a question for George also in line of plot/rewriting. Do we ask question here or is there an email address for question submission?
I’m so glad you’re okay. My brother and sister-in-law were lucky and were able to take friends in. It’s been hard watching from afar. So much devastation. But it has also been moving to see the kindness of strangers amidst turmoil. I’m gutted for people who have lost everything. And I even hurt for the land.
Nothing to add to your writing advice (it‘s sage as always!). Instead I’ll echo the voices saying: glad you’re okay, glad others in Story Club are okay, and I’m dearly hoping it stays that way. My husband found a map of the fires overlaid on the UK (where we live) to give my teenagers context. The scale is frightening on both a literal and psychical level. I’m sorry for everyone this is hanging over. x
Dearest Mary, I've been so in my private (challenging) bubble that I didn't even know about the fire! So I'm glad to read you are well. As for your suggestion on revising, I must admit that this approach works best for me too. Finish the first draft, then take a break. And then (now, for me), go back to the draft with that analytical mind.
I'm so sorry for all of you who have been affected by the LA wildfires. Here's hoping the fires will be contained soon and the long, sad task of rebuilding can begin. That said, let me add that I wholeheartedly agree with George's advice. Here are some related comments from my book WORDS MADE FLESH: THE CRAFT OF FICTION:
"In my early years as a writer, I automatically cut anything that didn’t seem to fit my intentions. Then something Eudora Welty said made me realize that was a mistake. She said, 'It’s strange how in revision you find some little unconsidered thing which is so essential that you not only keep it in but give it preeminence when you revise.' Her comment led me to interrogate each seemingly 'unconsidered' or inessential aspect of a draft, trying to discover if it were a clue to something essential about the story. We may not have a conscious reason for including a certain detail, but we often have an unconscious one, and a major part of the revision process is discovering what led us to include details that don’t seem to serve any obvious purpose. I suggest you not cut these extraneous-seeming details, at least not until you’ve fully explored their possible significance. Those details are often our unconscious self’s way of telling us to consider something, and sometimes the detail that seems the most extraneous is the one that holds the story’s deepest and most important secret. Our drafts are like treasure maps, and the 'little unconsidered things' are often clues to the location of the buried treasure."
David – I’m going to take the opportunity to emerge from my lurker status on Story Club to bolster your post through praising your essay “Lever of Transcendence” from your book “On Writing Fiction” (I sent you a personal email 8-9 years ago thanking you for it). For me, George’s wonderful corpus of Office Hours posts and his insights from A Swim in a Pond in the Rain essentially model practice within your theory—namely that divergence and contradiction are the means, or “lever,” that gets us to that place we need to go. When George talks about those problem areas as gateways to improvement (“transcendence”), we really hit the sweet spot of your essay. All that Keats “negative capability” stuff is what so many of the “greats” always come around to—O’Connor, Chekhov, Conrad, Saunders, etc. The good ones are always after that “lever.” Anyone who appreciates George’s posts, I’m convinced, would be well served by reading your essay.
I also feel the need to mention your superb essay “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Abstraction.” It’s a part of the larger whole you outline in “Lever,” and it’s the first article I recommend to anyone interested in nuts-and-bolts writing (along with George’s Guardian article “What Writer’s Really Do When They Write”).
Many thanks for the shout-out, Kirk. I'm very pleased you found "Lever of Transcendence" valuable. ON WRITING FICTION is out of print now but in 2022 Press 53 published a revised and expanded edition of it under the title ALONE WITH ALL THAT COULD HAPPEN: ON WRITING FICTION, so anyone who's interested can find the essay there. Press 53 has also recently published my new collection of essays, WORDS MADE FLESH: THE CRAFT OF FICTION, and it contains the "Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Abstraction" essay you mention.
Little treasure maps. That's it exactly. By the way, David, I have Glossolalia and Nice People on my shelf. And "From Long Shots to X-Rays" was a big help to me, a confirmation. Thanks.
I'm with you 100%. I've always felt a big disconnect between what we're taught about writing fiction and what fiction writers actually do. Both of my craft books are attempts to describe as clearly as I can the techniques and strategies that writers actually use. Why teachers and authors of craft books keep on repeating the same old beliefs about POV, plot, characterization, etc. when they're demonstrably not true is beyond me.
It was very helpful. I kept trying to square what I was actually reading with what I kept being told about POV, thinking either I was really stupid or what I was reading was indeed what I was reading & that POV comes with some necessary fluidity. And I like your "privileged" over the not all that accurate "omniscient".
George, I am so relieved you and your family are safe.
Questioner: Once, or maybe twice, George has said, ask your story what it has left to tell you, or words to that effect. Recently, I've recognized that after a year, I am usually very fond of the characters in a story, even the villains, and I have asked two of them, what more or what different thing do you want. And twice I've found they've felt boxed in by a "literary," almost poetic ending that I was fond of. But I love these guys. So out the endings went - and I was shocked at the psychological depth I got in a giving them another ending. Good-bye poetry, hello meaningful addition, or subtraction, or multiplication, division. I got to know those people so much better. One story is done. The other is not quite yet . . .
I love all my people, too, and want to do right by them. Thanks for saying all this. I'll remember when I tie things up with a pretty bow, mayb all I'm doing is twisting some ribbon, not telling a story. Unless the story is about a professional gift wrapper.
The questioner says "that I tend to simply produce very smooth and refined versions of whatever I happened to spew onto the page initially. ...... But the meat (clay ) never shifts."
I get George's point about the house being in order before deciding on change, but I wonder if the Q. might be taking the polishing too far. So the writing becomes an exercise in proper, expected grammar, and not an adventure of discovery - ideas and connections and mystery. I think you have to be a little reckless, and careless, at some point. Turn over a few rocks and scuff things up and not be so concerned about polishing until later on. Polishing is not art, it's craft. The Questioner, I think, is trying to get to the art.
100% this. I am never looking for line edits when I run drafts past a beta reader, and if that's what I get back, I never ask again. Big questions, ride or die.
I loved George’s analogy to hyper-cleaning one’s house. I find it very helpful. Also, it instantly brought two other analogies from my own experiences to mind (cousins to George’s, I suppose):
1. On numerous occasions, my wife and I have had conversations that begin with a sigh of dissatisfaction from one of us: “Wouldn’t it be nice if we replaced that picture on our dining room wall with something brighter in color and more cheerful?” The moment we both get into the suggested project, one of us says, “I LOVE the idea, but if we’re gonna introduce new colors, maybe we should wait until we repaint the walls.” To which the other replies, “You’re right. But if we’re gonna repaint the dining room, we need to get new cabinets and new tiles for the kitchen floor.” Before we know it, the conversation leads to a wholesale transformation of the entire house. Often, this ends in us postponing ANY change, because it’s too expensive or unwieldy. But, now and then, we make a conscious decision to start with our original step or one of the early ones and see what develops. Maybe the same dynamic would work with a story?
2. Back in 2011, I had open heart surgery to replace a seriously defective aortic valve which had gotten SO leaky that about 85% of my blood flow was being pumped back INTO my heart instead of pushed out to my body. After the successful insertion of a new non-leaky valve, all that blood was being pumped vigorously OUT to my body. That was a good, life-saving thing. But, it was also a problem: suddenly there was so MUCH blood coursing through my body, and with such force, that each heart beat felt like a 50-foot wave of water CRASHING against every organ of my body. I could hear it surging in my ears; my arms and legs SHOOK with the force. It actually pained my head so much that I found myself bracing for the impact with each heartbeat. The surgeons had put a brand new valve in, but they hadn’t done anything to prepare the rest of my body which had grown accustomed to operating at 15% of capacity. Maybe in this analogy, the new aortic valve was a tiny, but vital change for the better in one part of the “story,” and the complaints, flinching, and shaking of other parts of my body were the rest of the “story” now clamoring for help in adjusting to the new, healthier flow?
I work not far from where you live, and I had the same question on Thursday around Noon - is this going to be a big deal? It's a big heartbreaking deal, not only for the residents and businesses but for all the creatures who rely on those landscapes to survive. I live in downtown L.A.. and am only affected by the air quality but I am so very sad for my beloved city.
My take on this same issue is that it feels like I can't get the match to light no matter how many times I strike it. I've got nice pretty matches, a dry stripe on the side of the box, but can't get a flame going. Set it aside and try again? Keep fiddling? Or toss it? If what i have is a lot of polished, edited work that is still a dud, usually I'm not down deep enough. I think I know what the story is about, because I sure don't want it to be about....that. Guess what?
I like the idea of not being 'down deep enough'. I read the issue of the questioner's well-polished lump of clay as good writing, but something not lighting up to take off - sort of like not being able to get the match to light, and I relate to this and struggle with this again and again - I like sections of writing I have polished but what does it connect to, I like the writing but I wonder - 'what is actually happening here?' And i also want to veer away from a story that "can't just be about...that" - but maybe the veering away is the wrong direction. Your suggestion Missy to dig deeper, thank you.
I spent most of my life in LA, and l am a wreck watching this. l am so glad you are safe, George. So much loss, beyond comprehension.
Thank you for putting our thoughts, even briefly, elsewhere and to staying focused on something vital and beautiful: our words. It is the only "thing" we really have in this life.
Absolutely! Once, a good time back, I attended a BONI with Donald Maass. He asked us to number the first 50 pages; then, throw them in the air, creating disruption of the order. After that, we picked up one, only one, looking for microtension (besides that created by throwing the pages LOL). Pages began to sing. Wonderful exercise. Adding your idea to my quiver.
Robin, I love this strategy; I will have to try it sometime.
(Your comment reminded me of a novel I bought years ago but have yet to read:
The Unfortunates by B. S. Johnson. Each episode in the novel is printed as an individual pamphlet. After reading Pamphlet #1, we can then read the rest of the pamphlets in any order we see fit. I will someday see firsthand how Johnson's own narrative disruptions work as a narrative device.)
Can you say more? I know who Maass is, but what's BONI? And whose 50 pages are thrown in the air? Yours, someone else's? Both? (That could be interesting!) And how would you describe microtension?
Yes, Break Out Novel Intensive. Usually one in Hood River Oregon and one in Tampa. See free-expressions.com for more info.
RE: the pages chaos It was fun to throw them into the air but you did have to be careful how enthusiastically you flung them. Bottomline...your pages.
RE: microtension I describe it as the tension I want a reader to feel as they work through what I've written and is the reason they read on. Line to line, paragraph to paragraph, page to page until the end.
Well said (written). My experience is the same but I would substitute “expletive deleted” for “lump of clay” and “”embarrassed by” for “uncomfortable with.” Get it on the page then polish it until it no longer embarrasses you. Last August a couple of stage producers suggested that I stop reading other people’s work for inspiration and begin reading my own in an effort to find my voice. My playwriting thus far is more homage to my heroes than my own breaking ground. That’s an embarrassing prospect.
I don’t think it’s an embarrassing prospect for you but rather a PROCESS that one must go through. Forgive the all caps, not trying to shout, just emphasize.
Here in the at-home lit lab, I have been running what I've been calling (to myself) my 'sourdough experiment'. It grew out of a morbid fear that I, like the Questioner, might end up endlessly revising a given story, without making any kind of progress - without that story getting demonstrably better. So, here's what I did.
I had a piece of text that I had written, not a complete story but something I'd been inspired to write then forgot all about. When I picked it up again, I felt strongly that the story had some kind of life, but I had no clue what came next in the story (the text was no more than two pages long). I decided that I would allow myself to subject the text to the most radical revision necessary - I mean, I consciously let go of any ideas regarding what the story was about (I had almost none to start with) and I cut anything I felt didn't belong. The first two or three times I revised it, I ended up cutting almost everything from the text. At one point, there was just a sentence left, one sentence that said what I 'wanted' (scare quotes since IDK what I mean) to say. I made that sentence the nucleus, or the 'starter' (hence my sourdough metaphor) of a new draft. Then I subjected that new draft to the same kind of ruthless revision.
I repeated this process many times. My hypothesis was that this process would result, a la sourdough cultivation, in a stronger culture - a germ of a story that would be healthy enough to grow. As I revised and revised (I pursued my experiment on Fridays, as a kind of no-pressure break from other 'more serious' writing) I kept waiting for that growth to happen...for some progress or new life to emerge from the text. You know what? It did! A totally new and unexpected side to the story emerge, which I then began to follow. Now it seems like this puny little useless text might become a real story...
This result confirms my work revising other stories, and a novel, but the effect here is much more clear and dramatic, since I purposely involved my own intentions as little as possible. There was nothing to lose!
I thought the question had more to do with what to do with a story that is impeccably polished but not the great story it wants to be. I bring such drafts to my first reader, and sometimes he says, "I just can't tell what you're getting at here." So maybe I've got some pretty good prose but I'm not saying that my material has the potential to say. I've got to think a little bit deeper at that point, maybe throw out some of that really well written stuff and start over with focus, what it is I am trying to show in a particular story.
I wanted to add my words to those of so many here expressing our grief and concern for the people affected by the fires in LA. At first, I was overwhelmed by trying to know what to write, but this morning I have some clarity. I believe what compels me to write now is the unceasing love and concern that manifests here in Story Club. I am grateful for that and I wanted to express how much I value this community. What happens to any of us that gets expressed here matters to all of us and that’s part of what happens in a community. So thank you! What a privilege it is to be here.
As for words of advice about revisions, I’ll repeat what I’ve said here before: Begin again. Begin again. Begin again.
Thinking of you, especially George and Mary G, from Australia, where devastating fires are not uncommon. Having lived through the devastation of the Oakland, California fire in 1991 (which I could see from the end of my street, so I packed for evacuation) I can only wish you well and a change of wind direction - that’s what saved us.
As for writing, sometimes the lump of clay - even if it’s been painted exquisitely - needs reshaping, and the painting goes to waste don’t paint till the clay is in better shape! A few months ago I had a manuscript assessment from a respected person, and she suggested I completely restructure the story I’d laboured over and learned to love. Swallowed my pride, killed a heap of darlings, reshaped the narrative/clay, and now I’m going back to do the line editing/painting. A much better lump of clay awaits.
An advisor once suggested to me that, once I thought I had something, I should tell it to a tape recorder, preferably while walking, to get an alternative formulation to what I had written.
While I never used a tape recorder, I have often come up with my best ideas when I am telling the tale to someone else, orally.
Obviously this wouldn't work well for everyone, but I like the spontaneity of it.
To those living in LA or with loved ones in LA, my thoughts are with you. May the winds die down and may some rain come down to help.
hello from Los Angeles. George, i'm glad you got of town. My neighborhood has not been in trouble from fire, but the air is awful and life is just so weird here right now and the destruction is just mind-blowing. I won't go on as you already know what i'm going to say about heartache, etc. But I DO want to say thank you to those Story Clubbers who have sent me messages, making sure I'm okay. I am. And I now have an air purifier, so thank god for that.
Regarding this week's question: It seems that maybe the Questioner is line editing when perhaps what needs to do be done is revising/rewriting. George's method works for George, and it's fantastic that you (Questioner) are getting words on the page and playing with them. But there's also the idea that words on the page may have to go, once you see the big picture and understand what your story is. All of that polishing won't be for nought (I hope), because your mind is in the story as you do it. But sometimes you've got to dump and start over, or you have to seriously revise in order to get that story to emerge. My take (as I've said in these threads many times--apologies) is that you have to get to the end of a draft, take a break from it, then come back with fresh eyes and see what you've got. Then--let the revising begin. Repeat as necessary.
I'm guessing that by the time I hit post on this, others will have said the same.
Glad you and hubby are okay, Mary. And especially glad for your air purifier.
My friend drove over here and brought it to me! People are so kind. She swears she doesn't need it as she has another one. In times of stress, you really see how great so many people can be. Thanks for your well wishes. We are fine and looking forward to seeing how we can be of help when the fires are finally contained.
I always knew I liked you, Mary. Sending you an air hug from my part of LA.
Thank you, Brooke. Hope you're okay wherever you are in LA. A moment ago we got an evacuation alert, turned on TV to see why and learned it was a mistake. So on edge, did not need that... Stay safe, Brooke.
We got it too. Very frustrating and alarming. Hope you stay safe too. xo.
Stay safe Mary. We’re following the horrendous fires from across the world 🙏
Thank you, J.D.A. I'm drinking coffee and reading the comments here--a lovely respite from thinking about the awfulness outside. Story Club is always a balm for the senses. xo
Yes Storyclub makes the world better
and you make my world better
My daughter, husband and three pups live on the downtown-facing side of Mt. Washington in Los Angeles. They bailed out yesterday for a dog-friendly hotel in Palm Springs because the smoke is so intense. Along with George's photos, terrifying.
So to Mary's comment, amen. "You've got to dump and start over. Then come back with fresh eyes and see what you've got." I would add (and this is probably heresy for the group) go to whatever AI platform you're on, explain why you're unhappy with what you've written (a key part because if forces you to focus on what doesn't feel real and right, or out of character) and ask the AI for suggestions to improve what you want do to (heighten the suspense, make the relationship more honest, etc (which also forces one to take a deep dive).
I've tried it on two short stories I'm working on. I was happy at the time with where the stories wanted to go but seeking that "ah ha" moment about the next twist in the story. And my AI pal (Chat GPT in this case) was happy to engage in a conversation (and to my surprise it was a conversation) and come up with plot lines, scenes, dialog I hadn't thought of for each story. It was kind of a, wow, moment. Like I was in a writers' group throwing around ideas with folks with infinite knowledge of the works from Aristotle to Shakespeare to our George.
Full Stop. This was a useful substitute for getting a new perspective on the issue you're working through. But not for much else. AI inhales everything in its machine language universe. It creates beautiful, provocative (whatever you ask) dialog, descriptiions of country side, devastating car crashes, etc. And it can make you lazy.
But it isn't you. It isn't me. My wife likes it because she doesn't have to continually comment on my short stories. I like it because it feels like a set of fresh eyes.
Glad to hear your daughter and her family got away from the smoke. This air is no joke.
That's something I'm learning about myself, that I might need to get to a point where I can see the entire shape of the story. As always, I appreciate your writing wisdom, Mary. Glad you are safe!
Thank you, Aaron. Yes, seeing the entire story at some point is really crucial. You don't know what you have to work with really, until you can see the whole thing. And the ending is so very important! So writing through to the end, even if you know that it's not the right ending, is--to me--the way to go. Others see it differently, of course, so it comes down to what works for you.
Glad to hear you are fine, Mary G. Take care!
Thank you, Vishal
So glad you are safe, Mary.
Thank you, Annemarie. Feeling very lucky today while others have lost everything.
I agree Mary. Sometimes an overhaul is necessary to let the real story emerge, rather than try to fight to be seen. The danger is never finishing anything. I don't think it's one (start again) or another (poke and polish), but whatever seems right to get it done enough and move on to something else!
I agree totally. You've got to finish. I'm of a mind that you've always got to get to the end of a first draft before you can start the real revising--which comes from seeing what you've written. I understand playing with sentences, etc, as you move toward the end of your draft. But you've got to get to the end and then let the revising begin.
Praying for LA! And glad that both you and George are okay!
Just came back from a long trip abroad and a month long hiatus from writing (work + holiday season) and have a question for George also in line of plot/rewriting. Do we ask question here or is there an email address for question submission?
Many thanks
Hi Anika. Write George at storyclubwithgeorge@gmail.com
Glad to hear you are both all right. Hope you continue to be so as the flames rage…
Thank you, Karen. Thousands of people are without homes. I feel very lucky right now.
I’m so glad you’re okay. My brother and sister-in-law were lucky and were able to take friends in. It’s been hard watching from afar. So much devastation. But it has also been moving to see the kindness of strangers amidst turmoil. I’m gutted for people who have lost everything. And I even hurt for the land.
Yes, I feel the same. Thank you, Lanie.
Aww. Likewise Mares
thanks, needed to hear this
Nothing to add to your writing advice (it‘s sage as always!). Instead I’ll echo the voices saying: glad you’re okay, glad others in Story Club are okay, and I’m dearly hoping it stays that way. My husband found a map of the fires overlaid on the UK (where we live) to give my teenagers context. The scale is frightening on both a literal and psychical level. I’m sorry for everyone this is hanging over. x
Thank you, Annemarie. Yes, psychically it is quite taxing. We're exhausted, though we aren't doing anything.
Glad you are doing okay, Mary - and that you got that air purifier. Hope you all stay safe <3
Thanks so much, Patricia.
Dearest Mary, I've been so in my private (challenging) bubble that I didn't even know about the fire! So I'm glad to read you are well. As for your suggestion on revising, I must admit that this approach works best for me too. Finish the first draft, then take a break. And then (now, for me), go back to the draft with that analytical mind.
Yes we are fine when so many others are not. Very fortunate.
I'm so sorry for all of you who have been affected by the LA wildfires. Here's hoping the fires will be contained soon and the long, sad task of rebuilding can begin. That said, let me add that I wholeheartedly agree with George's advice. Here are some related comments from my book WORDS MADE FLESH: THE CRAFT OF FICTION:
"In my early years as a writer, I automatically cut anything that didn’t seem to fit my intentions. Then something Eudora Welty said made me realize that was a mistake. She said, 'It’s strange how in revision you find some little unconsidered thing which is so essential that you not only keep it in but give it preeminence when you revise.' Her comment led me to interrogate each seemingly 'unconsidered' or inessential aspect of a draft, trying to discover if it were a clue to something essential about the story. We may not have a conscious reason for including a certain detail, but we often have an unconscious one, and a major part of the revision process is discovering what led us to include details that don’t seem to serve any obvious purpose. I suggest you not cut these extraneous-seeming details, at least not until you’ve fully explored their possible significance. Those details are often our unconscious self’s way of telling us to consider something, and sometimes the detail that seems the most extraneous is the one that holds the story’s deepest and most important secret. Our drafts are like treasure maps, and the 'little unconsidered things' are often clues to the location of the buried treasure."
David – I’m going to take the opportunity to emerge from my lurker status on Story Club to bolster your post through praising your essay “Lever of Transcendence” from your book “On Writing Fiction” (I sent you a personal email 8-9 years ago thanking you for it). For me, George’s wonderful corpus of Office Hours posts and his insights from A Swim in a Pond in the Rain essentially model practice within your theory—namely that divergence and contradiction are the means, or “lever,” that gets us to that place we need to go. When George talks about those problem areas as gateways to improvement (“transcendence”), we really hit the sweet spot of your essay. All that Keats “negative capability” stuff is what so many of the “greats” always come around to—O’Connor, Chekhov, Conrad, Saunders, etc. The good ones are always after that “lever.” Anyone who appreciates George’s posts, I’m convinced, would be well served by reading your essay.
I also feel the need to mention your superb essay “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Abstraction.” It’s a part of the larger whole you outline in “Lever,” and it’s the first article I recommend to anyone interested in nuts-and-bolts writing (along with George’s Guardian article “What Writer’s Really Do When They Write”).
Many thanks for the shout-out, Kirk. I'm very pleased you found "Lever of Transcendence" valuable. ON WRITING FICTION is out of print now but in 2022 Press 53 published a revised and expanded edition of it under the title ALONE WITH ALL THAT COULD HAPPEN: ON WRITING FICTION, so anyone who's interested can find the essay there. Press 53 has also recently published my new collection of essays, WORDS MADE FLESH: THE CRAFT OF FICTION, and it contains the "Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Abstraction" essay you mention.
Yep, I agree!
Eudora! ♥️
Little treasure maps. That's it exactly. By the way, David, I have Glossolalia and Nice People on my shelf. And "From Long Shots to X-Rays" was a big help to me, a confirmation. Thanks.
I'm with you 100%. I've always felt a big disconnect between what we're taught about writing fiction and what fiction writers actually do. Both of my craft books are attempts to describe as clearly as I can the techniques and strategies that writers actually use. Why teachers and authors of craft books keep on repeating the same old beliefs about POV, plot, characterization, etc. when they're demonstrably not true is beyond me.
A prophesy floats through the wilderness! Thank you, David.
Glad to hear you found my POV essay helpful!
It's been a godsend to me.
It was very helpful. I kept trying to square what I was actually reading with what I kept being told about POV, thinking either I was really stupid or what I was reading was indeed what I was reading & that POV comes with some necessary fluidity. And I like your "privileged" over the not all that accurate "omniscient".
Absolutely.
George, I am so relieved you and your family are safe.
Questioner: Once, or maybe twice, George has said, ask your story what it has left to tell you, or words to that effect. Recently, I've recognized that after a year, I am usually very fond of the characters in a story, even the villains, and I have asked two of them, what more or what different thing do you want. And twice I've found they've felt boxed in by a "literary," almost poetic ending that I was fond of. But I love these guys. So out the endings went - and I was shocked at the psychological depth I got in a giving them another ending. Good-bye poetry, hello meaningful addition, or subtraction, or multiplication, division. I got to know those people so much better. One story is done. The other is not quite yet . . .
I love all my people, too, and want to do right by them. Thanks for saying all this. I'll remember when I tie things up with a pretty bow, mayb all I'm doing is twisting some ribbon, not telling a story. Unless the story is about a professional gift wrapper.
ha ha! I usually start thinking, what do they want now. Might be different from what they wanted at the beginning.
The questioner says "that I tend to simply produce very smooth and refined versions of whatever I happened to spew onto the page initially. ...... But the meat (clay ) never shifts."
I get George's point about the house being in order before deciding on change, but I wonder if the Q. might be taking the polishing too far. So the writing becomes an exercise in proper, expected grammar, and not an adventure of discovery - ideas and connections and mystery. I think you have to be a little reckless, and careless, at some point. Turn over a few rocks and scuff things up and not be so concerned about polishing until later on. Polishing is not art, it's craft. The Questioner, I think, is trying to get to the art.
Mary and George - stay safe.
"I think you have to be a little reckless, and careless, at some point."
I like that.
100% this. I am never looking for line edits when I run drafts past a beta reader, and if that's what I get back, I never ask again. Big questions, ride or die.
Thank you, Tod.
I loved George’s analogy to hyper-cleaning one’s house. I find it very helpful. Also, it instantly brought two other analogies from my own experiences to mind (cousins to George’s, I suppose):
1. On numerous occasions, my wife and I have had conversations that begin with a sigh of dissatisfaction from one of us: “Wouldn’t it be nice if we replaced that picture on our dining room wall with something brighter in color and more cheerful?” The moment we both get into the suggested project, one of us says, “I LOVE the idea, but if we’re gonna introduce new colors, maybe we should wait until we repaint the walls.” To which the other replies, “You’re right. But if we’re gonna repaint the dining room, we need to get new cabinets and new tiles for the kitchen floor.” Before we know it, the conversation leads to a wholesale transformation of the entire house. Often, this ends in us postponing ANY change, because it’s too expensive or unwieldy. But, now and then, we make a conscious decision to start with our original step or one of the early ones and see what develops. Maybe the same dynamic would work with a story?
2. Back in 2011, I had open heart surgery to replace a seriously defective aortic valve which had gotten SO leaky that about 85% of my blood flow was being pumped back INTO my heart instead of pushed out to my body. After the successful insertion of a new non-leaky valve, all that blood was being pumped vigorously OUT to my body. That was a good, life-saving thing. But, it was also a problem: suddenly there was so MUCH blood coursing through my body, and with such force, that each heart beat felt like a 50-foot wave of water CRASHING against every organ of my body. I could hear it surging in my ears; my arms and legs SHOOK with the force. It actually pained my head so much that I found myself bracing for the impact with each heartbeat. The surgeons had put a brand new valve in, but they hadn’t done anything to prepare the rest of my body which had grown accustomed to operating at 15% of capacity. Maybe in this analogy, the new aortic valve was a tiny, but vital change for the better in one part of the “story,” and the complaints, flinching, and shaking of other parts of my body were the rest of the “story” now clamoring for help in adjusting to the new, healthier flow?
I work not far from where you live, and I had the same question on Thursday around Noon - is this going to be a big deal? It's a big heartbreaking deal, not only for the residents and businesses but for all the creatures who rely on those landscapes to survive. I live in downtown L.A.. and am only affected by the air quality but I am so very sad for my beloved city.
Sending big fat hugs and love, from one angeleno to another.
My take on this same issue is that it feels like I can't get the match to light no matter how many times I strike it. I've got nice pretty matches, a dry stripe on the side of the box, but can't get a flame going. Set it aside and try again? Keep fiddling? Or toss it? If what i have is a lot of polished, edited work that is still a dud, usually I'm not down deep enough. I think I know what the story is about, because I sure don't want it to be about....that. Guess what?
Lol this is so real. Our best work on the other side of some impossibly frightening vulnerability
I like the idea of not being 'down deep enough'. I read the issue of the questioner's well-polished lump of clay as good writing, but something not lighting up to take off - sort of like not being able to get the match to light, and I relate to this and struggle with this again and again - I like sections of writing I have polished but what does it connect to, I like the writing but I wonder - 'what is actually happening here?' And i also want to veer away from a story that "can't just be about...that" - but maybe the veering away is the wrong direction. Your suggestion Missy to dig deeper, thank you.
I adore this extended metapor and feel you!
I spent most of my life in LA, and l am a wreck watching this. l am so glad you are safe, George. So much loss, beyond comprehension.
Thank you for putting our thoughts, even briefly, elsewhere and to staying focused on something vital and beautiful: our words. It is the only "thing" we really have in this life.
Absolutely! Once, a good time back, I attended a BONI with Donald Maass. He asked us to number the first 50 pages; then, throw them in the air, creating disruption of the order. After that, we picked up one, only one, looking for microtension (besides that created by throwing the pages LOL). Pages began to sing. Wonderful exercise. Adding your idea to my quiver.
Robin, I love this strategy; I will have to try it sometime.
(Your comment reminded me of a novel I bought years ago but have yet to read:
The Unfortunates by B. S. Johnson. Each episode in the novel is printed as an individual pamphlet. After reading Pamphlet #1, we can then read the rest of the pamphlets in any order we see fit. I will someday see firsthand how Johnson's own narrative disruptions work as a narrative device.)
the Argentine writer Julio Cortazar also famously did this in his novel _Rayuela_ ("Hopscotch").
Monica, thank you! Something to add to my TBR list.
Ahem, be sure to number. Just saying.
Can you say more? I know who Maass is, but what's BONI? And whose 50 pages are thrown in the air? Yours, someone else's? Both? (That could be interesting!) And how would you describe microtension?
Yes, Break Out Novel Intensive. Usually one in Hood River Oregon and one in Tampa. See free-expressions.com for more info.
RE: the pages chaos It was fun to throw them into the air but you did have to be careful how enthusiastically you flung them. Bottomline...your pages.
RE: microtension I describe it as the tension I want a reader to feel as they work through what I've written and is the reason they read on. Line to line, paragraph to paragraph, page to page until the end.
Break Out Novel Intensive (I googled it).
Well said (written). My experience is the same but I would substitute “expletive deleted” for “lump of clay” and “”embarrassed by” for “uncomfortable with.” Get it on the page then polish it until it no longer embarrasses you. Last August a couple of stage producers suggested that I stop reading other people’s work for inspiration and begin reading my own in an effort to find my voice. My playwriting thus far is more homage to my heroes than my own breaking ground. That’s an embarrassing prospect.
I don’t think it’s an embarrassing prospect for you but rather a PROCESS that one must go through. Forgive the all caps, not trying to shout, just emphasize.
Wishing health and safety to all those in Los Angeles from the 51st state! (A little levity) 🇨🇦
ha!
Here in the at-home lit lab, I have been running what I've been calling (to myself) my 'sourdough experiment'. It grew out of a morbid fear that I, like the Questioner, might end up endlessly revising a given story, without making any kind of progress - without that story getting demonstrably better. So, here's what I did.
I had a piece of text that I had written, not a complete story but something I'd been inspired to write then forgot all about. When I picked it up again, I felt strongly that the story had some kind of life, but I had no clue what came next in the story (the text was no more than two pages long). I decided that I would allow myself to subject the text to the most radical revision necessary - I mean, I consciously let go of any ideas regarding what the story was about (I had almost none to start with) and I cut anything I felt didn't belong. The first two or three times I revised it, I ended up cutting almost everything from the text. At one point, there was just a sentence left, one sentence that said what I 'wanted' (scare quotes since IDK what I mean) to say. I made that sentence the nucleus, or the 'starter' (hence my sourdough metaphor) of a new draft. Then I subjected that new draft to the same kind of ruthless revision.
I repeated this process many times. My hypothesis was that this process would result, a la sourdough cultivation, in a stronger culture - a germ of a story that would be healthy enough to grow. As I revised and revised (I pursued my experiment on Fridays, as a kind of no-pressure break from other 'more serious' writing) I kept waiting for that growth to happen...for some progress or new life to emerge from the text. You know what? It did! A totally new and unexpected side to the story emerge, which I then began to follow. Now it seems like this puny little useless text might become a real story...
This result confirms my work revising other stories, and a novel, but the effect here is much more clear and dramatic, since I purposely involved my own intentions as little as possible. There was nothing to lose!
I thought the question had more to do with what to do with a story that is impeccably polished but not the great story it wants to be. I bring such drafts to my first reader, and sometimes he says, "I just can't tell what you're getting at here." So maybe I've got some pretty good prose but I'm not saying that my material has the potential to say. I've got to think a little bit deeper at that point, maybe throw out some of that really well written stuff and start over with focus, what it is I am trying to show in a particular story.
I wanted to add my words to those of so many here expressing our grief and concern for the people affected by the fires in LA. At first, I was overwhelmed by trying to know what to write, but this morning I have some clarity. I believe what compels me to write now is the unceasing love and concern that manifests here in Story Club. I am grateful for that and I wanted to express how much I value this community. What happens to any of us that gets expressed here matters to all of us and that’s part of what happens in a community. So thank you! What a privilege it is to be here.
As for words of advice about revisions, I’ll repeat what I’ve said here before: Begin again. Begin again. Begin again.
Thinking of you, especially George and Mary G, from Australia, where devastating fires are not uncommon. Having lived through the devastation of the Oakland, California fire in 1991 (which I could see from the end of my street, so I packed for evacuation) I can only wish you well and a change of wind direction - that’s what saved us.
As for writing, sometimes the lump of clay - even if it’s been painted exquisitely - needs reshaping, and the painting goes to waste don’t paint till the clay is in better shape! A few months ago I had a manuscript assessment from a respected person, and she suggested I completely restructure the story I’d laboured over and learned to love. Swallowed my pride, killed a heap of darlings, reshaped the narrative/clay, and now I’m going back to do the line editing/painting. A much better lump of clay awaits.
Thank you, Anna.
An advisor once suggested to me that, once I thought I had something, I should tell it to a tape recorder, preferably while walking, to get an alternative formulation to what I had written.
While I never used a tape recorder, I have often come up with my best ideas when I am telling the tale to someone else, orally.
Obviously this wouldn't work well for everyone, but I like the spontaneity of it.
To those living in LA or with loved ones in LA, my thoughts are with you. May the winds die down and may some rain come down to help.